Battery Preconditioning: Some measured data.

[ckt]

One can Yo-yo ones car for even better results. See recent id4 video on it from Kyle. 19 min to 60% vs 60 min to 60%, that's quite the savings with 30 mins of Yo-yo-ing

Sponsored

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I was wondering if you meant there was a way to trick the car into doing a battery pre-condition while it is not plugged in. Like remote start, enter a DCFC location - but then don't drive anywhere, just let the battery warm itself.

<snip>

So I was just thinking out loud about how to warm the battery after sitting all day at work with no access to a charger. Especially on days like today when it's below zero (Fahrenheit) outside.

It's certainly worth a test.
I would definitely remote start the car at a minimum.
I don't know if the FordPass app will link with the car's navigation to program in a destination remotely, but I kind of doubt it.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

One can Yo-yo ones car for even better results. See recent id4 video on it from Kyle. 19 min to 60% vs 60 min to 60%, that's quite the savings with 30 mins of Yo-yo-ing

One of the fastest ways to degrade battery health is to yo-yo the charge/discharge speed, especially when the battery is cold.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Oh I agree completely. I wasn't asking for range so much as battery health. @Mach-Lee mentions that dumping all the energy from regen braking into a cold battery is bad for it - and I know that my friend's tesla does not use near as much regen braking when his battery is cold.

So I was just thinking out loud about how to warm the battery after sitting all day at work with no access to a charger. Especially on days like today when it's below zero (Fahrenheit) outside.

So, yes. This is ~25 minutes of the car unplugged, started, with a destination set.
Same kind of warming up we see with the car plugged in and a destination set (or not set according to the tests @Mach-Lee did). I did not test the Remote Start.

I did lose about 3% SOC during these 20 minutes. I think I would only use this method (of starting the car unplugged) if it was really, really cold and I expected some aggressive (downhill highway speeds) regen. Otherwise, I think I would just drive the car gently for the first 20-30 minutes.

 

[Mach-Lee]

Here's teaser for my next write up. Hint: I was COLD... ?

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Here's teaser for my next write up. Hint: I was COLD... ?

Brr.

Our record low (according to my weather station--we've only been here for about four months) was -20 C a week or so ago.

 

[the golden eel]

So, yes. This is ~25 minutes of the car unplugged, started, with a destination set.
Same kind of warming up we see with the car plugged in and a destination set (or not set according to the tests @Mach-Lee did). I did not test the Remote Start.

I did lose about 3% SOC during these 20 minutes. I think I would only use this method (of starting the car unplugged) if it was really, really cold and I expected some aggressive (downhill highway speeds) regen. Otherwise, I think I would just drive the car gently for the first 20-30 minutes.

Thanks for testing this. You're right, would not be worth doing all the time, just the really cold days.

But therein lies the crux, I'm not going to want to take an extra walk out to my car on the really cold days. ?

Looks like it'll be warmer this afternoon (7 degrees F) but I'll still give it a try today. I've already set a DC fast charger as a favorite location in the on-board navigation system. So I'll go out there, start it up, and have it try to navigate to that charger.

Based on settings, it looks like the car will run for 30 minutes without me or my key (phone) in it.

I'll note the GOM and SOC before and after.

 

[Maquis]

It's certainly worth a test.
I would definitely remote start the car at a minimum.
I don't know if the FordPass app will link with the car's navigation to program in a destination remotely, but I kind of doubt it.

You can create a trip in FP and send it to the car, but you can’t tell it to “Go”, which I’d think would be necessary to initiate preconditioning.

 

[DaMeatMan]

Ah, battery went from 12ºC to 26ºC (∆T = +14ºC) during the en-route precondition. So this seems designed around you preconditioning on L2 before you leave so the battery starts at 12ºC or so. If you do not precondition before your trip, the first DCFC will still be slow because the battery will not be warmed up enough (unless you were just driving downhill). I was wondering why it was only 30 km, the engineers must have designed the feature with the assumption the pack would start in the 12-15ºC range after a departure time precondition.

In your case the pack was warmed up quite a bit from extensive regen before your charging stop. For most others driving on flat land, the battery will probably only be in the 5ºC range in cold temps.

In summary, I want to make an important point: L2 departure time preconditioning + en-route preconditioning must be used TOGETHER to achieve desired results.

Seems like a wonky implementation from a logic standpoint if that's actually how Ford implemented this, and if true this basically means this was designed around those who have a home with a charger and are starting a trip from that point with a known departure time and there next destination is a DC fast charger. So this would negate anyone that lives in an apartment or condo complex without access to L2 charging. Which means this implementation (if it exists) is a pretty niche use case and very short sighted implementation that would never work in the majority of real world conditions, and it was obviously designed by engineers that have never owned an EV.

What about the folks who don't charge daily and happen to be driving around town in the winter running errands with 30% or 40% and just want to find a location nearby, and not have to waste 30 min plugged in (and paying) just to get the pack warm enough to a point where it can actually start charging at a half decent rate which equates to another 30 or 40 min before reaching their desired charge rate. How hard is it to add a manual precondition on demand button with a note that says "activate at least 30 min prior to charger arrival" so folks can just get on with their day and plan their charge like normal human beings rather than trying to modify their behavior to jump through these silly hoops of logic preconditions that must be met before the pack can begin preconditioning? What about folks that just like to use Android auto or Carplay with far superior navigation options available??

It's this sort of thinking that has Ford years and years behind Tesla and they are going to have to radically change the way they think if they want to remain competitive. I'm no Tesla fan boy but even I can see that Tesla does not allow android auto or carplay because they want to control every aspect of the user experience through their onboard offerings, but the difference here is that their execution is immaculate, and just works wonderfully. Ford and most other traditional automotive companies cannot even begin to make these claims, so with that said just be real about it and give folks a simple button to utilize the vehicle tobits fullest potential, whilst also making use of 3rd party solutions that already give then access to.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Seems like a wonky implementation from a logic standpoint if that's actually how Ford implemented this, and if true this basically means this was designed around those who have a home with a charger and are starting a trip from that point with a known departure time and there next destination is a DC fast charger. So this would negate anyone that lives in an apartment or condo complex without access to L2 charging. Which means this implementation (if it exists) is a pretty niche use case and very short sighted implementation that would never work in the majority of real world conditions, and it was obviously designed by engineers that have never owned an EV.

What about the folks who don't charge daily and happen to be driving around town in the winter running errands with 30% or 40% and just want to find a location nearby, and not have to waste 30 min plugged in (and paying) just to get the pack warm enough to a point where it can actually start charging at a half decent rate which equates to another 30 or 40 min before reaching their desired charge rate. How hard is it to add a manual precondition on demand button with a note that says "activate at least 30 min prior to charger arrival" so folks can just get on with their day and plan their charge like normal human beings rather than trying to modify their behavior to jump through these silly hoops of logic preconditions that must be met before the pack can begin preconditioning? What about folks that just like to use Android auto or Carplay with far superior navigation options available??

It's this sort of thinking that has Ford years and years behind Tesla and they are going to have to radically change the way they think if they want to remain competitive. I'm no Tesla fan boy but even I can see that Tesla does not allow android auto or carplay because they want to control every aspect of the user experience through their onboard offerings, but the difference here is that their execution is immaculate, and just works wonderfully. Ford and most other traditional automotive companies cannot even begin to make these claims, so with that said just be real about it and give folks a simple button to utilize the vehicle tobits fullest potential, whilst also making use of 3rd party solutions that already give then access to.

I think you're ascribing to Ford something that's still entirely speculation.

Ford's recommended battery preconditioning for driving while cold is to set a destination time, while plugged in, if possible.

Separately they have enabled the car to warm the battery to a preferred temperature before charging on a DCFC by linking the navigation system with the battery health management system.

They limit the charge/discharge rate on the battery depending on its temperature.

I and others are wondering if we can get the battery warmer (closer to a preferred temperature for long-distance, higher speed driving and regeneration), especially in a cold environment, by setting a DCFC destination and "tricking" the car into thinking it needs to prepare for a DCFC session.

These are edge case considerations.

The average daily drive for people in the US is about 30 miles. For someone in an apartment, it's probably shorter. Those short trips, which are also mostly at lower speeds don't require more than a remote start and gentle driving for battery health reasons.

 

[Socalsp3]

One of the fastest ways to degrade battery health is to yo-yo the charge/discharge speed, especially when the battery is cold.

beats waiting in the cold for half an hour waiting for dcfc.

 

[the golden eel]

Looks like it'll be warmer this afternoon (7 degrees F) but I'll still give it a try today. I've already set a DC fast charger as a favorite location in the on-board navigation system. So I'll go out there, start it up, and have it try to navigate to that charger.

Based on settings, it looks like the car will run for 30 minutes without me or my key (phone) in it.

I'll note the GOM and SOC before and after.

So I just finished up with this. Got in the car and turned off E-Heat, the fan, heated seats, and heated steering wheel. Used the Ford map to navigate to a DCFC 11 miles away. As soon as I pressed "GO" on the nav I heard a whirring in the car. I assume that was the battery warming itself. At this point I left the car with my phone (key) and it beeped twice at me as I started to walk away. Which makes sense since it was on and I was walking away with the key - just sharing details.

SOC was 85% with a GOM of 194 miles.

After 30 minutes I checked and the SOC was 81% with a GOM of 210 miles.

So I guess this work around is better than nothing for the really cold days, but I would prefer a simple button on the app, instead of having to walk to the car.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

So I just finished up with this. Got in the car and turned off E-Heat, the fan, heated seats, and heated steering wheel. Used the Ford map to navigate to a DCFC 11 miles away. As soon as I pressed "GO" on the nav I heard a whirring in the car. I assume that was the battery warming itself. At this point I left the car with my phone (key) and it beeped twice at me as I started to walk away. Which makes sense since it was on and I was walking away with the key - just sharing details.

SOC was 85% with a GOM of 194 miles.

After 30 minutes I checked and the SOC was 81% with a GOM of 210 miles.

So I guess this work around is better than nothing for the really cold days, but I would prefer a simple button on the app, instead of having to walk to the car.

Sounds like "a" (less-than-ideal) solution until Ford gives us an option to do more than just warm up the cabin with Remote Start.

 

[Mach-Lee]

So I guess this work around is better than nothing for the really cold days, but I would prefer a simple button on the app, instead of having to walk to the car.

Sounds like "a" (less-than-ideal) solution until Ford gives us an option to do more than just warm up the cabin with Remote Start.

You don't need to walk to the car, just set a departure time 30-45 minutes in the future with the app and it will warm the battery+cabin.

 

[the golden eel]

You don't need to walk to the car, just set a departure time 30-45 minutes in the future with the app and it will warm the battery+cabin.

But I'm not plugged in at work. I thought we can't warm the battery with a departure time if we're not plugged in.

Sponsored