BlueCruise Easily Fooled

[gpgrim]

2. I had thought that streets were “pre-mapped” to be part of BlueCruise, which meant they don’t just rely on cameras on the car. That’s clearly not true, and you really should not trust this system yet.

Pre-mapping means they've loaded Google/Apple maps into the Nav system and set a flag on the GPS coordinates where the hand nanny can take a nap. Chalk this up to the aspirational nature of humans meeting the clever phrasing of market prose.

Cost effective GPS systems, like that in your phone, have a resolution of 16 feet. It's possible to do much better, but in a mass consumer product, like phones and autos, it's just not cost effective. GPS lane centering would require resolution to better than 1 foot, and that assumes the lanes don't change willy nilly, such as with road construction etc. Because of transient conditions, these systems need situational awareness, hence LIDAR and cameras. That being said, I really hate the fact that the LC algo has to touch the right lane line before deciding on the center. Really rather annoying at pace next to a semi.

Sponsored

 

[gpgrim]

I've also had issues with "phantom" markings. For example there's some milled areas on roads where lines used to be painted it picks up and yanks the wheel for a half second driving past.

The camera seems to identify lines based on highest contrast, so if you have a marking that is much brighter or darker than the road it will lock on and try to follow it. Even if it's not yellow or white.

There is a similar issue with real markings used in construction zones. During sharp lane shifts BlueCruise will still try to follow the lines. It will literally throw you right off the road if you aren't paying attention and don't have a firm hand on the wheel.

From an engineering standpoint, I think Ford needs to apply a rate limit on the allowed steering inputs. If the lane marking has too great of a departure angle from the travel direction which would result in a very fast steering input, the system needs to stop and say take over immediately rather than try to take the line like a frenzied teenager. Some tweaking needs to happen there for increased safety. I'm prepared for it while driving, but a slow-reacting driver may not.

I always put my hands on the wheel for any long arcing bends in the road, or where I know the right hand lane line breaks. The LC software works fine in basically straight line conditions, at least after it homes on the right lane line, but its driver assist at best, not auto driving.

I can't prove this, since I don't have the tools, but it does seem to me that the software is being updated on occasion. I used to get a noticeable "torque steer" like effect when it first activates, and that seems to be gone now. Also, on my recent trip to So-Cal, I didn't notice the bounce right at lane line breaks, such as on ramps, so maybe this has changed as well? Also noticed a dashed centerline on my back up camera during that trip. Don't remember seeing that before, but hey I'm an okay boomer, so I don't notice much these days.

 

[GuliblGuy]

Blue cruise only works on DIVIDED highways for a reason. It still needs to see lanes to work, and gps isn't anywhere near precision enough to keep it in a lane like the poster above me pointed out, along with construction variables.

The hands free is only on divided highways in case it wigs out and you're not fast enough to grab it you hit a k rail or another car going the same direction, and not have an oncoming collision where everyone dies.

Any lane questions, faded lines, construction, I just put my hands on the wheel in case it has a crisis and acts weirdly.

 

[Carsinmyblood]

The "Magnetic Guided Highway of Tomorrow", which would have used buried magnets to guide cars, could be easily fooled by dropping hardware store magnets on the road.

The "Painted Line Guided Highway of Today" can be easily fooled by similarly sourced paint.

What a joke.

 

[tfitzgex]

Thick skid marks also will screw with the system. And no. I don’t mean in underwear…

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

We noticed this on our very first drive with lane keeping on: it failed when there were parallel-to-travel fresh oil/tar sealant lines with high reflectivity compared with the rest of the road.

I used to teach robotics to middle and high school students. We did lane keeping the same way modern vehicles seem to do. It's always surprising to me that they're using such simplistic lane keeping methods that are no better than what could be found in a middle school robotics student's code.

 

[tannerk89]

We noticed this on our very first drive with lane keeping on: it failed when there were parallel-to-travel fresh oil/tar sealant lines with high reflectivity compared with the rest of the road.

I used to teach robotics to middle and high school students. We did lane keeping the same way modern vehicles seem to do. It's always surprising to me that they're using such simplistic lane keeping methods that are no better than what could be found in a middle school robotics student's code.

It’s way more complicated than that, unless you taught middle school students how to incorporate blended sensors using three hierarchy levels of LiDAR/vision/sonar as well as information from pitch and yaw sensors, acceleration rate, accelerator position, steering angle sensors, and feedback loops from all of those, oh and more including redundant systems and safeties for all of that. But yeah, probably exactly the same as your students code!

 

[JohnFoxeSheets]

...at one point, the paint line severely turned to the left. We were fine until we reached that point, and the car nearly drove us right into the Jersey wall highway divider.
Full collision warnings, lights, buzzers, etc.
I have always kept my hands and attention “on guard” while BlueCruise driving, but this really shocked and scared me. It really scared the crap out of everyone else in the car.

I can certainly understand that this event was scary!

I had thought that streets were “pre-mapped” to be part of BlueCruise, which meant they don’t just rely on cameras on the car. That’s clearly not true, and you really should not trust this system yet.

Again, both sides of the road lane were painted and provided with reflectors.

It is my understanding that the primary purpose of the pre-mapping of BC roads is to determine where to turn on/off hands-free operation and switch from/to hands-on operation. (There are likely other reasons for the pre-mapping, but this is definitely a big part of it.) In my (limited) experience, if a turn is too tight, BC will go to hands-on mode since it doesn't "trust" it's steering torque to make tight turns. As soon as you exit the turn it re-engages. This happens for instance on I-280 leaving/returning to San Francisco.

Oh, there are very clearly painted lines, plus those imbedded reflectors about every 4-5 feet apart. There is no mistaking the alignment of this 2-year old roadway. It’s just that there was the extra line in the middle of the lane from some careless painter.

Regarding the cameras, yes, they can be fooled. While BC (and lane keeping) will not work without well marked lanes, the cameras need to figure out which road lines to follow, and yes, they can become confused. Additionally they try to follow lanes that have moved due to road construction. FWIW, in the situation where there are extra lines on the road (be they repaired road cracks, erroneous lines of paint, removed paint from changed, lanes, etc.), I always keep my hands on the steering wheel and may even disengage BC entirely so as to not be led astray.

(ATTN: FORD) I now wish there was a place to post alerts in real time to warn other BlueCruise drivers regarding active road hazards, such as paint spills that could wreck your car.

@Ford Motor Company: I think this is an excellent idea.

 

[newmme]

So many people really don't understand these features and their limitations.

We know the name autopilot confuses people, but the name Blue Cruise is very descriptive

 

[Mach-Lee]

It is my understanding that the primary purpose of the pre-mapping of BC roads is to determine where to turn on/off hands-free operation and switch from/to hands-on operation. (There are likely other reasons for the pre-mapping, but this is definitely a big part of it.) In my (limited) experience, if a turn is too tight, BC will go to hands-on mode since it doesn't "trust" it's steering torque to make tight turns. As soon as you exit the turn it re-engages. This happens for instance on I-280 leaving/returning to San Francisco.

Another thing that seems to be part of the map data is where there are exits. Near exits it seems to switch to using the left line only so it doesn't follow the exit by mistake. If your drive on a non-mapped road with lane centering it will want to follow the exit to the right before giving up.

 

[CesarG]

This is my exact concern with BlueCruise. Happens to Tesla drivers with autopilot and I’m afraid it could start happening to those using bluecruise. All these features are driving aids.

They’re not meant to replace your eyes, ears and attention. However, this is not stressed enough, so people become overly confident in a technology that is not meant to replace you as a driver.

Tesla’s autopilot and blucruise are not FSD, just smart cruise control, with the latter having the “no-hands” ability, which again, seems irresponsible in ny opinion. Even then, there are videos on youtube of Tesla’s FSD beta nearly hitting pedestrians or cyclists.

 

[Blue highway]

Would spilled paint like that confuse the lane keep feature of even an older car without blue cruise? Never had a car with lane keep, so I'm curious.

Yes. All lane keeping cars currently rely on seeing the stripes

 

[ripperAZ]

Y’all can Say all you want me about the technology but the one thing that’s proven is the technology is not ripe yet

Tesla’s putting on auto park are driving into everything just go you tube it. The Cadillac system might be the best but I wouldn’t trust it around big trucks or crazy road services. Sometimes flashing lights can just blank out your cameras

If you’re gonna expect some programmers downloaded code and a bunch of plastic sensors on your car to notice and adapt to every kind of adaptive light barrier and ground situation you’re out of your freaking mind at this point

It’s going to require 3-D cameras not ones that are lined up looking at things in the direction it thinks you should hit because sometimes things look like they aren’t

And then the 3-D cameras are going to have to react to every kind of lighting situation which can change what they see. What about earthquakes!!!!

Just saying I’m keeping my hand on the steering wheel and not playing Monopoly or clue if they offer it on my screen in the future while driving

Hey Ford what’s up with the games when you can’t get the frunk to open remotely. Let’s not talk about the contacts and HV recall problems
Sheesh
Burp….

Yes that’s the end of Father’s Day Burp

happy Father’s Day to all you guys out there.


It was kind of a drunken addition to the forum. But I can’t imagine letting my car drive me around like that it would be like driving like I am right now ….kind of shit faced. Thanks kids and grandies….

Jes sayin

 

[RickMachE]

We know the name autopilot confuses people, but the name Blue Cruise is very descriptive

IMO, Ford screwed this up. Initially, it was very clear that BlueCruise meant handsfree driving. Then, they expanded the name and now no one has a clue what anything is called. Similarly with renaming the charging network. Don't know what the hell they were thinking.

 

[fokkerlit]

One of the biggest issues I've seen with this car is that Ford doesn't use enough (or the right) words to describe their products or functionality.

Ford doesn't say anywhere that BlueCruise uses GPS to navigate the roads, but they (as well as new outlets) have used the phrases such as "GPS mapped roads". Which does give the impression that they've done some work to integrate your GPS location into how BlueCruise steers (which is not the case).

The same goes for the "Speed Sign Recognition" setting. This setting definitely incorporates "known" speed limits by GPS and not only limits it recognizes from the camera. So the name is deceptive and this isn't stated in the help text and can be very dangerous if your vehicle suddenly accelerates or decelerates if you're not expecting it.

Sponsored