Camping Mode

[JamieGeek]

I mean .. that's what the gear shifter + brake is for ... A start button for a car that doesn't need to be started seems unnecessary.

Maybe, maybe not.

On my Bolt (and on my old Focus Electric) the start button is an "on" button closing (and opening for off) the contactors for the high-voltage-battery. An on and off state if you will.

When in the "off" state..no vampire losses; something that Tesla's are known for.

I'll keep my start button thank you.

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[Stickboy46]

Maybe, maybe not.

On my Bolt (and on my old Focus Electric) the start button is an "on" button closing (and opening for off) the contactors for the high-voltage-battery. An on and off state if you will.

When in the "off" state..no vampire losses; something that Tesla's are known for.

I'll keep my start button thank you.

And I won't waste my time pressing an extra button each time I need to get in my car. Thank you

Also have next to no vampire loss in my car when sentry mode is turned off. I'm curious if things like sentry mode and cabin overheat protection would work if the connections were turned off like that

 

[jhalkias]

Maybe, maybe not.

On my Bolt (and on my old Focus Electric) the start button is an "on" button closing (and opening for off) the contactors for the high-voltage-battery. An on and off state if you will.

When in the "off" state..no vampire losses; something that Tesla's are known for.

I'll keep my start button thank you.

Our Fusion Energi also has a button to start. I don't think it is a big deal. Maybe I am old fashioned, but whether it is electric or gas, I like to turn things OFF - or ON. I'll keep mine too.

 

[ab13]

Our Fusion Energi also has a button to start. I don't think it is a big deal. Maybe I am old fashioned, but whether it is electric or gas, I like to turn things OFF - or ON. I'll keep mine too.

From a safety standpoint it's important. There's already at least one lawsuit when that feature doesn't exist. Some people who design products don't seem to understand the requirement for safety lockout features, given what a 2+ ton object can do

 

[Stickboy46]

From a safety standpoint it's important. There's already at least one lawsuit when that feature doesn't exist. Some people who design products don't seem to understand the requirement for safety lockout features, given what a 2+ ton object can do

I'm curious .. How is pressing the brake + an on button safer than pressing the brake + pulling a shifter safer? Both require a two point engagement to get the car into a moving state.

On top of that, at least with Tesla, there is a "hold" state where you would have to be in the drivers seat AND press the gas pedal. So really it's a 3 points of engagement. 4 points if you don't enable phone as a key and require the key card to be on the center console.

 

[jhalkias]

I'm curious .. How is pressing the brake + an on button safer than pressing the brake + pulling a shifter safer? Both require a two point engagement to get the car into a moving state.

On top of that, at least with Tesla, there is a "hold" state where you would have to be in the drivers seat AND press the gas pedal. So really it's a 3 points of engagement. 4 points if you don't enable phone as a key and require the key card to be on the center console.

Ok, I get the "ON" part . . . two points or three of contact, but how does the car then turn "OFF"? You don't necessarily want it to turn off when you put it in park. Does getting out of the seat turn it off? And there are some times you might want it to stay on when out of the seat (getting out to help someone (like an elderly person get in). But you do want to turn it off when you lock up to leave the car. I will still keep the button.

 

[ab13]

I'm curious .. How is pressing the brake + an on button safer than pressing the brake + pulling a shifter safer? Both require a two point engagement to get the car into a moving state.

On top of that, at least with Tesla, there is a "hold" state where you would have to be in the drivers seat AND press the gas pedal. So really it's a 3 points of engagement. 4 points if you don't enable phone as a key and require the key card to be on the center console.

If someone has to shut off the vehicle in an emergency, where is the on and off button? This is an Osha requirement for types of power tools, so why shouldn't it be the same for large moving vehicles?

Many vehicles require the key fob to be near the power button in order to activate it, so if someone is loading the vehicle, another person couldn't just put it in gear. That is issue of the Telsa lawsuit that is ongoing. A child was able to put the vehicle in gear because there isn't a sufficient lockout.

 

[Stickboy46]

Ok, I get the "ON" part . . . two points or three of contact, but how does the car then turn "OFF"? You don't necessarily want it to turn off when you put it in park. Does getting out of the seat turn it off? And there are some times you might want it to stay on when out of the seat (getting out to help someone (like an elderly person get in). But you do want to turn it off when you lock up to leave the car. I will still keep the button.

Depends on how you define "off". It's not really a thing for electrics

You put it in park, once the door is opened and no one is in the seat and you walk far enough away (or manually lock the car if you aren't using phone as key.) then it goes into a low power mode.

In your scenario, what exactly do you lose if the car turns "off" .. which yet again really isnt' a thing in a BEV... when you help an elderly person get in? Only thing I really see in the A/C? You can also leave that on at any time whether the car is "on" or "off". Even in that scenario the car would remain on unless you walked far enough away from the car. In which case, as soon as you got close to it again and opened the door it would turn back "on" ...

The need for an on and off button is purely a desire to be "normal" because that's what every ICE car. There is absolutely no need for it in a BEV. It's just a comfort thing with zero purpose.

 

[Stickboy46]

If someone has to shut off the vehicle in an emergency, where is the on and off button? This is an Osha requirement for types of power tools, so why shouldn't it be the same for large moving vehicles?

Many vehicles require the key fob to be near the power button in order to activate it, so if someone is loading the vehicle, another person couldn't just put it in gear. That is issue of the Telsa lawsuit that is ongoing. A child was able to put the vehicle in gear because there isn't a sufficient lockout.

Yet again .. what exactly is "off" in a BEV. You don't have a motor to turn off. In that scenario, there has to be a keyfob/phone/keycard PLUS enough weight in the drivers seat PLUS a foot on the brake PLUS pulling the shifter. That problem isn't solved by having an on/off button as the child can just press that too ...

And also, just because there is a lawsuit, doesn't actually mean there is something wrong there ... just means someone saw a way to get a payday.

 

[JamieGeek]

Of course this conversation made me pay attention to exactly how long it takes to press the start button.

The answer, for me and my Bolt, is not long at all. Maybe a couple of seconds at that. Since I'm busy putting the seatbelt on and doing other things pressing the start button is pretty minimal in comparison.

To be fair the Focus Electric trained me to have a specific sequence when starting a car now. The Focus Electric was a very tempermental car and you had to give it some time to "come alive" after hitting the start button. Thus many drivers, myself included, developed a sure fire sequence for starting it:

• Open door get in
• Foot on brake
• Press start
• Seatbelt
• Radio, etc.
• Wait a beat
• Shift to drive
• Release brake

If you did not do this the dash would be alive but shifting into drive would be like shifting into neutral.

Of course in the Bolt I don't have to wait a beat so its a bit quicker lol.

 

[dbsb3233]

Our Fusion Energi also has a button to start. I don't think it is a big deal.

Agreed. Even Microsoft Windows that many of us are typing in right now has a Start button. "Start" is a pretty generic term that applies to a lot of things.

I'm not one that thinks BEVs need to throw out any terminology handed down from the ICE paradigm. I almost get the impression that some BEV enthusiasts hold a sort of hatred for ICE and want to purge everything related to it, including any legacy terminology. I hold the opposite view -- that not only will ICE hold an important (albeit shrinking) place in transportation for a long time, but that retaining some of the terminology actually makes transitioning to BEV use easier for mainstream buyers.

 

[ab13]

Yet again .. what exactly is "off" in a BEV. You don't have a motor to turn off. In that scenario, there has to be a keyfob/phone/keycard PLUS enough weight in the drivers seat PLUS a foot on the brake PLUS pulling the shifter. That problem isn't solved by having an on/off button as the child can just press that too ...

And also, just because there is a lawsuit, doesn't actually mean there is something wrong there ... just means someone saw a way to get a payday.

Of course there is motor to turn off, the electric motor (technically the inverter control), which can be activated by the accelerator pedal when the system is on. If the drive system is in standby or off, then the pedal won't operate it.

When I talk about safety, it's in regards to many possible situations. However, one such situation is to prevent someone from operating the vehicle. For example, I was a rear seat passenger in a car, and after a few miles the driver started to have a medical issue and was driving erratically. The front seat passenger and I were concerned of a possible collision. I was considering what could be done, and turning the key to shut off the motor then use the hand brake to stop the car was the most likely option if really necessary.

Fortunately, the driver was able to stop the car later, but not having any type of Stop option would have been dangerous if the driver went further into an uncontrollable state. A vehicle without an obvious Stop feature would not have this as an obvious method to deal with such a situation. The vast majority of people would know about turning a key or pushing a Start/Stop button even if they are in a vehicle that isn't their own.

 

[macchiaz-o]

I was a rear seat passenger in a car, and after a few miles the driver started to have a medical issue and was driving erratically. The front seat passenger and I were concerned of a possible collision.

I wonder if this might be part of the reason why the hazard lights and parking brake controls are accessible to all occupants. Additionally, the front passenger can reach the horn and take control of the steering wheel, and as you said, turn the car off. They could also reach the gear selector, but I'm not sure how it would respond when the brake pedal isn't applied.

I've never noticed any car whose hazard lights button was out of reach of the front passenger. Maybe there is a safety regulation requiring it to be accessible?

 

[Stickboy46]

I wonder if this might be part of the reason why the hazard lights and parking brake controls are accessible to all occupants. Additionally, the front passenger can reach the horn and take control of the steering wheel, and as you said, turn the car off. They could also reach the gear selector, but I'm not sure how it would respond when the brake pedal isn't applied.

I've never noticed any car whose hazard lights button was out of reach of the front passenger. Maybe there is a safety regulation requiring it to be accessible?

You can flip it into neutral without the brake pedal

 

[JCHLi]

If they did have a 'camping mode' it would be interesting if they sold a tent accessory like you can get for the escape/explorer.

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