Charging Costs (on the road)

[SpaceEVDriver]

Most people switch to EV because it suppose to be way cheaper than driving on gas. Even all advertisements are how much you can save per year. Unfortunately from what i am seeing the cost of driving EV vs ICE is pretty tight for now. You guys always calculate how much it will cost from point A to point B EV vs ICE but never ask yourself how much more you paid for your EV (just because its an EV its $50000 and above and you prepaid your fuel for couple years ahead). At least to me to save because you switched you have to:
1. Drive a lot per month
2 Charge only on low peak or at home only
3 Keep this car for a long time
4 You don't care about the money
To me EV low cost energy is not there yet but it will happen in the future. And the main pros for now are because it looks cool to have EV ( accelerate fast, its a new tech, nice to try something different, ect ) and you are saving the environment with no emissions.
Be honest and ask yourself why you are buying an EV. i am sure in 80% saving from gas is not the case.

Like I do for every vehicle purchase, I did the math before we bought the Mustang. Comparing with any similar capability (AWD) and size (5-seat hatchback midsized SUV) ICE vehicle, I found that our breakeven length of ownership is 3-6 years, average of 4 years, with the Mustang. After 4 years, the Mustang will be paying for itself in lower use costs. I did this math by running simulations including various costs such as the cost of energy, the cost of maintenance, miles driven (average 12,000 miles/year), resale value, and several other parameters.

I ran these simulations using EA's DCFC cost of $0.43/kWh as my average electrical energy cost, not my home charger cost of $0.00/kWh fed from solar or $0.10/kWh fed from the grid. I used an average cost of $4.00/gallon of gasoline. And I used the EPA rated efficiency, which in my experience is higher than reality for gasoline and lower than reality for the Mustang. I let each of those parameters vary within 2 standard deviations and I ran 10,000 simulations for each run.

In order for the Mustang cost of ownership not to be better than an ICE vehicle's cost of ownership, I would have to find something that's approximately $30k cheaper and gets around 40-45 mpg. It would not be similarly capable as the Mustang for our purposes, which include long road trips of >1,000 miles and driving on snow/ice packed roads in the winter.

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[Regulus7]

The average cost of a car in the USA is $47k. I don’t see a reason for automakers to concentrate on making low priced EVs now when the charging infrastructure is not ready. There is plenty of demand for higher end EVs and as more automakers jump into this market that will give them the experience to eventually produce lower end models.

fast charging infrastructure needs to be built on or near major hiways. Most EV buyers today have home chargers. The infrastructure bill allocates $7.5b for building out the network and I hope they get that money allocated quickly
https://www.ey.com/en_us/infrastruc...2H4KKnXBxRlJngy9pTUlpKGty8PprJ6MaAqD5EALw_wcB

 

[dnlsatriani]

This isn't a valid argument, because if one was going to buy an EV to save money, they wouldn't buy a $60,000 one.

Well thats what all car manufactures tells you when you open their website. Savings savings and savings. Also that is the reason for all infrastructure bills to invest in chargers to make you switch to EV. How many options of SUV do we have under 50K which have enough range to be able to drive on long distance and rely on your 50 or 60K vehicle the same way like ICE ?
If you make survey maybe 4 of 5 people will tell you its cheaper to drive electric but its inconvenient. So main argument is to save money.

It's also not a valid argument because buying ANY new vehicle over keeping a used vehicle is likely to not save money. I always laugh when people dump their low MPG vehicle to buy a brand new higher MPG vehicle when the breakeven is 10+ years away...

Yes you can save by buying new vehicle especially if its regular hybrid. An old vehicle need expensive repairs especially on high millage and of course you cannot save if you buy new low MPG car or SUV.

My 2013 F-150 cost me tires this year and battery. Otherwise, no maintenance in 9 years of ownership. While I may only get 15mpg in winter, and 18 on highway, I can't do math that tells me that the Mach-E will save me money over it.

You most likely will save money from switching to MME from F-150 (unless you do business with your truck , you dont drive a lot, or you bought GT or GTPE ) but you will sacrifice cargo and functionality. Also dont forget its 2013.

Anyone who bought a Mach-E to save money is math challenged.

A more valid argument is which car to take on a trip. Just did a 1,500 mile roundtrip with the Mach-E, spending around $90. In my F-150, with gas at $4.15 and getting 18mpg, that would have cost $345. I save money...

Thats why we have to compare same size vehicles. If you go on the round trip with semitruck it will cast even more compared to MME.
if you compare MME to similar size ICE suv (Tucson, Sportage, ect ) price difference is around 20K. How many gallons you will buy with 20k ?

 

[RickMachE]

Thats why we have to compare same size vehicles. If you go on the round trip with semitruck it will cast even more compared to MME.
if you compare MME to similar size ICE suv (Tucson, Sportage, ect ) price difference is around 20K. How many gallons you will buy with 20k ?

You clearly don't own a Mach-E.

 

[dnlsatriani]

You clearly don't own a Mach-E.

??

 

[RickMachE]

??

The whole point of your argument is silly. If you want an EV to save money over a gas vehicle you already own, forget it. Buying any new vehicle over a several year old vehicle is a bad financial decision.

I have an F-150 with a big V8. Horrible mileage. Fun to drive. Had a Datsun 280Z years ago. Very fun to drive.

Got the Mach-E and discovered what fun to drive really means. Nothing I have ever owned, or driven, compares. Anyone who says they bought the Mach-E to save money is math challenged as I said. And you'd compare this $60,000 car to a $25,000 Kia Sportage? ?

 

[SnBGC]

Not sure if there has been a thread on charging costs?

One of the main benefits of a electric motor over an ICE is they are generally 2-3 times more efficient. That should equate to a 60-70% reduction in energy related running costs; which is true if you charge at home. However many of the fast charging stations are asking ridiculous rates compared to the actual electricity costs in the local market.

For instance here in Florida electricity is generally around 0:10 cents a kWh; at that rate there is a big financial benefits driving an EV over an ICE. Many of the fast charge stations in Florida charge up to 0:43 cents a kWh; at that rate the cost per mile is very similar to an ICE. I feel some of the national charging networks are practically price gouging. A 300-350% mark up over the price of the electricity in the local market is extreme profiteering. Gas stations generally make 5-8% profit per gallon.

This unrestricted profiteering doesn't really effect me personally because we charge using excess solar at home and free chargers my wife's work. But high rates at charging stations are going to impact a lot of people and be a prohibitive factor in the adoption of EVs. This issue need addressing nationally and caps need to be implemented on the mark ups above local electricity costs.

There first must be profit in order to have profiteering. So fuel for a road trip costs about the same in a BEV as an ICE? I don't see the problem here??

 

[Kennykustom]

We enjoy $ .085kwh at home.
Avg 8 bucks 0 -100 %

So, my daily commute never needs a top up.

My commute use to run about $600 a month.

 

[kennethjk]

I commute just 90 miles a day and charge at home nightly at $.0634/KWh. My annual savings net v. $5 gas is about $4,000. That’s where EV’s shine. I’m typically at 118 mpge and that’s in the range of my old Honda 50.

Curious if that .0634 is just fuel charge or fuel and supply charge

 

[Glen Boise]

After my previous comments on how the new Infrastructure bill should be spent it occurred to me that the FHWA would have better information on how they expect the money be spent. The published guidance clearly expects the states to contract with experienced private parties to build the DC Fast Charger sites with the private party paying the usual 20% local match. Having 80% federal funding is a pretty good deal. Even if it funds just the basic 4 chargers capable of charging 4 vehicles at at least 150 kwh, at the same time. They clearly want a build out of services along the Interstates first. After build out is complete, the states can build along other public roads, etc. There are even provisions for having solar panels powering the sites and for encouraging construction in rural, disadvantaged and under served communities. There are state planning requirements requiring public input, so do not expect to see any construction until next year with some exceptions. This is a 5 year program, with a lot of money that the states can not transfer to other purposes.

 

[JSeis]

Curious if that .0634 is just fuel charge or fuel and supply charge

That’s direct supply cost at our residential meter. The Mach E is charged nightly on a metered 100 amp utility panel that has steady state draw. I predicted about $30/month increase and the S.O. confirmed. I’m unsure of charging inefficiency loss. The winter rate use went up because the Mach E is less efficient so I’d expect the winter monthly draw cost is closer to $40/month. Overall we will probably be at $400+ per year annual electrical cost.

At my mi/KWh that equates to 23,000-24,000 annual miles which is my expectation by July.

I don’t know about the inefficiencies of loss through charging up the MME. If I kept better notes I could probably calculate.

 

[mjs020294]

So fuel for a road trip costs about the same in a BEV as an ICE? I don't see the problem here??

Considering electric motors are generally three times more efficient than ICE I see a major problem there.

 

[SnBGC]

Considering electric motors are generally three times more efficient than ICE I see a major problem there.

So are you expecting a gallon of energy to cost the same as a gallon of gasoline? If so, why would you have that expectation? Are you expecting to have DCFC facilities constructed and available for use for the same cost as you can buy it at home? Nothing else works like that. If you go out to eat it costs much more than making food at home (all else being equal).

I don't understand the complaint. People want public charging but don't want to pay for it? Doesn't sound reasonable to me...???

 

[SnBGC]

Curious if that .0634 is just fuel charge or fuel and supply charge

When you factor in delivery fees etc, my price per kWh is 6.77 cents during super off peak (which is when I charge my car). I drove 32,000 miles in the first 12 months so my net fuel savings was about $7,000.

 

[kennethjk]

When you factor in delivery fees etc, my price per kWh is 6.77 cents during super off peak (which is when I charge my car). I drove 32,000 miles in the first 12 months so my net fuel savings was about $7,000.

My delivery charges are about .023 (off Peak) at night and fuel charge is about .064 for a total of .087, per KW.

I was driving a car getting 20 mpg and took premium so figure .20 a mile cost. Electric costs .087 and the MME gets 3 miles per KW, that equates to about .03 a miles, saving of .17 per mile. At 7k miles a year, savings will be 1,190 a year. I used to drive 30k a year until I retired a few years ago.

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