Coldest you would take EV over ICE?

[MacherAWD]

In truth it has just got the point that neither my wife nor I want to drive in the snow anymore especially in the mountains which would be the case for where we might go around here in the winter.

We are similar, I just asked my wife, "are we going up to see your family in quebec at Xmas?" and she already started getting stressed about the mountains and snow.

As for driving, we are north of Boston, 2 EVs, no ICE. I would comfortably drive up to quebec at 0, snow we try to avoid. While in Quebec in winter we have seen -10 F, but we stay at a hotel that has L2, so the car is plugged in and runs great.

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[Mach1E]

I take my wife’s Lincoln on every road trip including those in Florida in the summer. Even if it would only be 1 charging stop. I just don’t have that kinda spare time or patience when going long distances.

I can’t imagine taking an EV in negative temps!

In my mind the EV road trippers are those patient people you see doing 65 in the right lane. Good for them, but I’m not one of them.

 

[dalola]

I simply look at how far we are going, and if there are sufficient/economical chargers along the route, if needed. ICE wins most of the time. Gas prices right now beat public charging prices, in our area.

 

[Sikkun]

A through F: Neither EV nor ICE make sense, stay home.

I don’t have it as nice as our Hawaii members but if there is the rare white stuff on the ground I’m not leaving the house.

 

[kltye]

I don't worry much about it in my '21 as long as there's a DC charger every 100 mi (160km) or so. We dress appropriately for the weather, always try to keep SoC above 30%, and precondition as much as possible at the start of the day. I also tend to keep speeds down for lower power usage - both from an aerodynamic standpoint as well as stripping heat away from the pack more quickly at higher speeds.

The ER RWD is the longest-range version of the vehicle though, so maybe that has something to do with it.

PS I worry much more about snow and ice than range when driving in winter conditions.

 

[dan_meh]

2023.5+ models may be better because they can draw from other heat sources.

Yes. I haven’t seen the coldest temperatures you mentioned, but I have seen 0F. I’m driving a 2024 and the heat kept up. I didn’t put a car scanner on it, but had heated seats and a heated steering wheel (same would have been true in ICE) and it was fine.

So is there variance in the year of Mach-e EV, but I’ll also say there are other EVs on the market. Tesla can run the motors inefficiently to create heat, for example. That’s clever. And I’m sure other manufacturers have other clever techniques.

All that said, the vast majority of drivers probably won’t see A, let alone B-F scenarios. Cool to watch on YouTube!

 

[kltye]

I'm always curious: How much more efficient are inefficiently run motors compared to resistive heat? Mach-Lee also mentioned scavenging heat from other sources; how much heat do other sources actually produce? The '21s standard 6+kW PTC heater is A LOT of power (which equates to 6kW of heat) yet can't seemingly keep up with extreme cold temperatures, so I wonder much difference these other auxiliary sources heat make.

 

[Mach-Lee]

I'm always curious: How much more efficient are inefficiently run motors compared to resistive heat? Mach-Lee also mentioned scavenging heat from other sources; how much heat do other sources actually produce? The '21s standard 6+kW PTC heater is A LOT of power (which equates to 6kW of heat) yet can't seemingly keep up with extreme cold temperatures, so I wonder much difference these other auxiliary sources heat make.

Such as the motors and inverters.

Let's say you're driving using 30 kW, and the motor and inverters are about 90% efficient. That means 10% lost at heat, or 3 kW. That 3 kW could be captured and reused for additional heating. 5+3 = 8 kW of total heating in theory, which can make a big difference.

 

[ChrisO]

It is crazy to think that the reason that ICE cars have plenty of heat for the cabin is because they are so wasteful of the energy.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

Joking aside, I would advise everyone to really avoid getting into conditions that make the car prioritize the battery over you. The day I described in my previous post was one when several Teslas got stranded at superchargers in the Midwest because the drivers kept the cars running while waiting for a charger till the HV batteries died and cars had to be towed. Their sophisticated heating systems did not help. It is a very dangerous situation to find yourself in. The car (and you) gets cold very quickly in -20F regardless what you’re wearing (I was in a very thick jacket).

My experience was with a 2022 premium ER AWD. I don’t know if my 2024 GT would be any better under similar conditions. I suspect not much.

 

[AZBill]

I'm always curious: How much more efficient are inefficiently run motors compared to resistive heat? Mach-Lee also mentioned scavenging heat from other sources; how much heat do other sources actually produce? The '21s standard 6+kW PTC heater is A LOT of power (which equates to 6kW of heat) yet can't seemingly keep up with extreme cold temperatures, so I wonder much difference these other auxiliary sources heat make.

My Rivian does not have resistive heater, they pump high frequency current into the motor initially, it will get up to 200F. Once you are using the motors they stay at 150F-160F.

GM uses a heat pump to transfer the motor and inverter waste heat to the battery and cabin. I think they have a resistive heater at startup, but only use it until the motors warm up, or when connected to wall power.

 

[dalola]

It is crazy to think that the reason that ICE cars have plenty of heat for the cabin is because they are so wasteful of the energy.

It's actually a very efficient use of the combustion byproduct. Modern ICE engines are actually pretty efficient, all things considered.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

It is crazy to think that the reason that ICE cars have plenty of heat for the cabin is because they are so wasteful of the energy.

My first assignment as a validation engineer at a domestic big three was to test a “bra” designed to block the grill of a diesel truck to generate enough heat to warm the cabin. The engine was so efficient that it wasn’t generating enough heat, hence the additional part. So most, but not all engines are that inefficient.

 

[Blue highway]

Joking aside, I would advise everyone to really avoid getting into conditions that make the car prioritize the battery over you. The day I described in my previous post was one when several Teslas got stranded at superchargers in the Midwest because the drivers kept the cars running while waiting for a charger till the HV batteries died and cars had to be towed. Their sophisticated heating systems did not help. It is a very dangerous situation to find yourself in. The car (and you) gets cold very quickly in -20F regardless what you’re wearing (I was in a very thick jacket).

My experience was with a 2022 premium ER AWD. I don’t know if my 2024 GT would be any better under similar conditions. I suspect not much.

In the PNW, where it rarely gets much below freezing even though I am north of 45 degrees... gotta love the Pacific Ocean!

... but growing up in Michigan, and living for a while in far upstate NY, I've driven a lot in temps below zero F in ICE cars. I've had diesel gel in the car and had it stop... i've had a flat at near zero degrees... both are Really miserable experiences. So I'd personally keep the distances short and near populations if heading out below about 10 degrees.

 

[dan_meh]

I didn't want to take this thread totally off topic (the extreme cold), so I started a new thread about the fat bit of the bell curve for most of us: https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/coolest-youd-take-an-ev.51487/

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