Coldest you would take EV over ICE?

[motto]

Hi Friends,

For those of you who own both an EV and an ICE vehicle and live in what I’ll call the “frozen tundra” (roughly north of the 45th parallel): when you’re heading out on a 3–5 hour winter road trip, which vehicle do you choose?

This isn’t about what’s technically possible - it’s about what’s practical and enjoyable.

From my experience with a 2021 Mach-E ER, the car can’t supply heat to the battery inlet and the cabin at the same time - it’s one or the other. The inlet temp (confirmed via Car Scanner) gets absolutely nothing if the Cabin Heater is turned on, even when there is only a minor kW heater draw for the Cabin Heat). So if I want to properly precondition for DCFC the battery en-route, I need to turn the cabin heat off entirely for a while to allow it to heat the battery.

Here’s how different temperature ranges feel to me in real-world use - and where I start questioning whether the EV or the ICE makes more sense:

Scenario A) –10°C (14°F)
Some range loss, but the battery isn’t deep-frozen on arrival at DCFC, so it warms fairly quickly. Preheating for fast charging helps if you’re on a tight schedule. EV still feels easy.

Scenario B) –15°C (5°F)
Preheating becomes increasingly important. Cabin heat often needs to be turned off briefly to get meaningful heat into the battery before charging.

Scenario C) –20°C (–4°F)
This is my personal “fork in the road.” Either accept noticeably slower charging, or sacrifice your comfort in the cabin to prioritize warming the battery.

Scenario D) –25°C (–13°F)
This is the coldest I’ve done personally, and it felt borderline. The cabin never fully reached normal comfort (because the car decided for me that heating the battery was necessary and not just a nice-to-have for DCFC). Don't even think about battery preconditioning for DCFC en route in fact. Charging stops were roughly 2–2.5× slower - the first ~15 minutes were mostly spent heating the battery (often I would exit the vehicle since cabin heat had to stay off and grab a coffee somewhere). Cold-gating further limited charge rates to protect the battery.

Scenario E) –30°C (–22°F)
Unknown - haven’t tested yet.

Scenario F) –35°C (–31°F)
Hard pass? ICE territory?

I’m curious where everyone else falls: At which temperature do you still prefer the EV for winter road trips, and where does the ICE start to make more sense for you?

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[ChrisO]

A through F: Neither EV nor ICE make sense, stay home.

 

[emichnov]

the car can’t supply heat to the battery inlet and the cabin at the same time - it’s one or the other. The inlet temp (confirmed via Car Scanner) gets absolutely nothing if the Cabin Heater is turned on, even when there is only a minor kW heater draw for the Cabin Heat). So if I want to properly precondition for DCFC the battery en-route, I need to turn the cabin heat off entirely for a while to allow it to heat the battery.

If it helps, this is also my experience with my '22 Premium. I thought I read in here it would do both if the car interior heating demands where not very high, but no.

-5 or -10° F is where I would start to think traveling in the Mach-E would no longer be pleasant.

 

[ChrisO]

Note this post from @Mach-Lee his posts have some very good information on the subject.
https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...ery-warm-so-you-have-enough-cabin-heat.33107/

 

[Space_Pony]

With the price of gas now, our hybrid F150 is cheaper to use on a road trip so we would use the truck. It also has a smoother and more comfortable ride.

 

[scout]

Hi Friends,

For those of you who own both an EV and an ICE vehicle and live in what I’ll call the “frozen tundra” (roughly north of the 45th parallel): when you’re heading out on a 3–5 hour winter road trip, which vehicle do you choose?

This isn’t about what’s technically possible - it’s about what’s practical and enjoyable.

From my experience with a 2021 Mach-E ER, the car can’t supply heat to the battery inlet and the cabin at the same time - it’s one or the other. The inlet temp (confirmed via Car Scanner) gets absolutely nothing if the Cabin Heater is turned on, even when there is only a minor kW heater draw for the Cabin Heat). So if I want to properly precondition for DCFC the battery en-route, I need to turn the cabin heat off entirely for a while to allow it to heat the battery.

Here’s how different temperature ranges feel to me in real-world use - and where I start questioning whether the EV or the ICE makes more sense:

Scenario A) –10°C (14°F)
Some range loss, but the battery isn’t deep-frozen on arrival at DCFC, so it warms fairly quickly. Preheating for fast charging helps if you’re on a tight schedule. EV still feels easy.

Scenario B) –15°C (5°F)
Preheating becomes increasingly important. Cabin heat often needs to be turned off briefly to get meaningful heat into the battery before charging.

Scenario C) –20°C (–4°F)
This is my personal “fork in the road.” Either accept noticeably slower charging, or sacrifice your comfort in the cabin to prioritize warming the battery.

Scenario D) –25°C (–13°F)
This is the coldest I’ve done personally, and it felt borderline. The cabin never fully reached normal comfort (because the car decided for me that heating the battery was necessary and not just a nice-to-have for DCFC). Don't even think about battery preconditioning for DCFC en route in fact. Charging stops were roughly 2–2.5× slower - the first ~15 minutes were mostly spent heating the battery (often I would exit the vehicle since cabin heat had to stay off and grab a coffee somewhere). Cold-gating further limited charge rates to protect the battery.

Scenario E) –30°C (–22°F)
Unknown - haven’t tested yet.

Scenario F) –35°C (–31°F)
Hard pass? ICE territory?

I’m curious where everyone else falls: At which temperature do you still prefer the EV for winter road trips, and where does the ICE start to make more sense for you?

thanks, I live in NJ and we rarely see under 10f------which is where I draw the line.

 

[RickMachE]

We're 100% EV. The Lightning heater is more robust, and the battery loses less heat than the Mach-E while driving. That said, it also uses 40 to 50% more energy to go the same distance, but also charges faster.

On a winter trip, you need to dress appropriately in any vehicle, because if the vehicle fails you need to be properly clothed. We run heated seats and steering wheel. I lose my short sleeve t-shirt for a long sleeve t-shirt, and add a lightweight vest. I wear lightweight gloves. My wife has a small blanket she drapes over her legs. As you head south, the frigid temp rise, and it is no longer an issue.

 

[daniel9478]

I think there's going to be some variability in the responses as we've seen a few design changes through the years to try to improve cold weather performance. Yours is one of the first and probably the worst of the Mach E versions in this regard. Later versions have larger heaters or even heat pumps for the newest ones, so performance will probably vary a good bit.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

I recall 2 years ago I visited my parents when temps were in the -15 or -20F. I parked outside for ~2 hours and drove back home the 12 miles or 30 min journey. I was losing energy at an alarming rate, and made it close to home with 12% SoC left. I got hit by the yellow turtle which significantly reduced power. I headed directly towards a DCFC which was fully occupied and had to wait in line for at least 30 min. I was losing charge rapidly to the point that I turned the car off and waited in the cold car. It was not a pleasant experience and I will not repeat.

So not just no, but fuck no, I will not be driving an EV in these kinds of conditions. We only have the Mach-E as our only vehicle. So will order GrubHub, thank you very much.

 

[Guss-E 2021]

Luckily for me, it's very unlikely I'll have to test the cold limits of the car. I rarely "road trip", even in the summer. I park in a garage that never drops below freezing even when temps outside are negative. My "driving world" is small in which driving 50 miles to see my brother is a "long" drive.

Today it was 10°F when I left the house. Car was more than comfortable with the heat at 70 on auto. I even got a little warm and turned off the heated seat and steering wheel. New England is just so much more condensed than other cold parts of the country. BEVs work out quite well here.

 

[YeOldeTraveller]

I did a road trip in January to Atlanta from Detroit. Due to the expected weather, I took the Mach-E Rally. On the return trip, we did the trip back in one day. The temperature was consistent at about 10F for the full trip back. Climate was Auto the entire way, and there was no issue with charging or comfort.

I finally did some driving in 0F weather. I had no issue with driving. I had some minor issues with windows fogging, but I was able to handle that with HVAC adjustments. I will have to get more experience in colder temperatures to see where limit is. In my climate, I am not sure there is a point where I would not take the Rally where I would not take the trip due to the weather. (I totally understand that some live in places where deferring the drive is not an option.)

 

[Gyrfalcon08]

If it's in the single digits F (or any wintry precip since I have a RWD) I take the AWD ICE Jeep over my 21 Mach E.

 

[david_quick]

A through F: Neither EV nor ICE make sense, stay home.

Well I live at 47° 35 m and have both my Gt and a Diesel truck. I choose the EV every time right up to the point there is a foot or more snow on the ground. This year I put 2700 miles on the truck and that included a 2200 mile road trip to pick up some family items after my mother in law moved out of her home. I not for needing to do that it would have been the GT making that trip. I have put 12000 miles on the car so far. Now to be honest it rarely gets below 32°F/0°C here and there are EV chargers all over the area. My usual travel is under a 180 mile radius from my home. I don’t even think about range.

 

[ChrisO]

Well I live at 47° 35 m and have both my Gt and a Diesel truck. I choose the EV every time right up to the point there is a foot or more snow on the ground. This year I put 2700 miles on the truck and that included a 2200 mile road trip to pick up some family items after my mother in law moved out of her home. I not for needing to do that it would have been the GT making that trip. I have put 12000 miles on the car so far. Now to be honest it rarely gets below 32°F/0°C here and there are EV chargers all over the area. My usual travel is under a 180 mile radius from my home. I don’t even think about range.

In truth it has just got the point that neither my wife nor I want to drive in the snow anymore especially in the mountains which would be the case for where we might go around here in the winter.

But if we were we would certainly shift to my wife’s 2008 Mustang at the point where the car can no longer provide heat to both the battery and the cabin.

 

[Mach-Lee]

Based on my testing, I would personally want to take a different vehicle if the temperature is below about -13°F or -25°C. There is just not much heat available at that temp, and the battery will rapidly cool and take heating priority after about 45 minutes of driving.

2023.5+ models may be better because they can draw from other heat sources.

Keep in mind the loss of cabin heat is very sharp with outdoor temp. You might be nice and toasty at 0°F but have no heat at -10°F. Because when it stops keeping up, you will lose the battle quickly. It’s sort of like digital reception—it’s fine until it isn’t.

Also FYI the car can direct heat to both the heating core and battery at the same time, but switching both of them in drops the loop temperature significantly so the heater core will have limited output. Normally this is avoided, but when the battery gets low on charge, the strategy wants to keep it at around 2°C no matter what to avoid cell voltages collapsing. Low state of charge <25% and battery temp below 2°C is when you get in the danger zone for turtle mode, avoid.

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