Stevey
Well-Known Member
- First Name
- Steve
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2021
- Threads
- 0
- Messages
- 62
- Reaction score
- 77
- Location
- Georgia
- Vehicles
- Mach e Std Range Premium
- Occupation
- Implementation Specialist
I agree the survey does appear accurate. EVs and the associated charging infrastructure are still young in their development but are improving very quickly. While on the cusp of wide acceptance they still have a long way to go. Let me share a real world example to demonstrate the challenges. You can skip the details, if you want, and go straight to the summary below.
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We own a '15 Honda Odyssey and has about 480mi of range on a tank of gas, a Mach E Standard range RWD, and we owned a VW ID4 (swapped for Mach E). We make a trip of ~580mi (1160mi round trip) 4 or 5 time per year. You may argue that there are not a lot of families/people with that challenge, and you would be correct; however, there are enough families/people that have at least 1 of those types of trips to make this relevant. Using the Honda the trip take about 9 hours with a single fuel stop. Using the ID4 the same trip takes about 10 hours. Using the Mach E about 11.5 hours. That is ~7.5hr (driving time) + time for Bathroom, Food and Fuel/Charging. As you can see we are not shooting for a "cannonball run" type drive. While not exactly true we will remove the drive time from the equation since they all should be roughly the same. While the ID 4 (~250mi) and the Mach E(~230mi) have similar ranges you may ask why does the Mach E take so much longer. Plane and simple “CHARGING CURVE"(I am looking at you Ford).
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Fueling/Charging Curve (what we saw) and stops. The way we break it down is ~60min (for food) and 2 (15min) breaks/bathroom so about 1hr 30min. Since we can refuel in 15 min and eat in the car we can significantly cut into that time, but who really wants to do that with a family and not in a rush. What about charging stops? Well that is a little different story. Charging stops are simply a time suck. Theoretically you would charge to 80%, or what is need to get to the next stop, and be on your way but when traveling with a family that is a different story. For us each stop typically takes 60min (1 hr). One of the stops comes out in the wash since it involves food, but this works to the ID4's advantage. Since 80% to 100% is only an additional 20 (60min total) we are able to get the full ~245min. The Mach E on the other hand is still trying to get to 80% within those extra 20 minutes and only has 15min of the extra 20min left to add above 80%. That only nets an extra 8 miles. Wait you say, The Mach E has a max DC Charge rate of 150KW but ID4 has 125KW. That is true but because Ford Engineers decide to nerf the charging curve that advantage lasts about 5 min, and that is for 0% to 80%. Above 80% that drops to 11KW while the ID4 keeps trucking at 30-40KW to 90% and then starts a gradual charge rate reduction, unlike the Mach E that falls of a cliff at %80.
Odyssey (3 Stop)(90min)
0-100% 12min ~480mi
ID4 (3 Stops) (*120min)
0-80% 38min ~200mi
80-100% 60min ~245mi
Mach E (4 stops) (*240min)
0-80% 45min ~ 184mi
80-100 123min ~ 230mi
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Cost:
When using the ID4 the extra hour was tolerable and the charging was free (3yr Electrify America). Using the Mach E was not quite as fun and the charging was not cheap (580 mi/3.0 k/mi ~ 193.9 KW * $0.42 ~ $81.44). However, cost really isn't a factor for us since I am only paying for it 4 to 5 times per year, but other people might take that into account
Odyssey
$63
ID4
Free (Electrify America)
Mach E
$81.44 (Electrify America)
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Summary:
The ID4 was an excellent road tripping car and a very viable replacement for the Odyssey. If it had ~325mi of range in this limited scenario, it completely replaces the Odyssey and would take the same time. The Mach E is a different story. This truly highlights the need for the extended range Mach E and how the charging curve is what really matters. In Ford's defense they have release software update to improve the charging curve, but in my case I have not received any updates, so I can only work with what I got. For the average family making this trip to ask them to add an additional 4 hours is a non-starter (and that assumes no hiccups). It is this reality that is reflected in this survey. The good news is that, that reality will change sooner that rather than later.
Why did we trade the ID4 for the Mach E? Well ... that is another story
-----------
We own a '15 Honda Odyssey and has about 480mi of range on a tank of gas, a Mach E Standard range RWD, and we owned a VW ID4 (swapped for Mach E). We make a trip of ~580mi (1160mi round trip) 4 or 5 time per year. You may argue that there are not a lot of families/people with that challenge, and you would be correct; however, there are enough families/people that have at least 1 of those types of trips to make this relevant. Using the Honda the trip take about 9 hours with a single fuel stop. Using the ID4 the same trip takes about 10 hours. Using the Mach E about 11.5 hours. That is ~7.5hr (driving time) + time for Bathroom, Food and Fuel/Charging. As you can see we are not shooting for a "cannonball run" type drive. While not exactly true we will remove the drive time from the equation since they all should be roughly the same. While the ID 4 (~250mi) and the Mach E(~230mi) have similar ranges you may ask why does the Mach E take so much longer. Plane and simple “CHARGING CURVE"(I am looking at you Ford).
-------
Fueling/Charging Curve (what we saw) and stops. The way we break it down is ~60min (for food) and 2 (15min) breaks/bathroom so about 1hr 30min. Since we can refuel in 15 min and eat in the car we can significantly cut into that time, but who really wants to do that with a family and not in a rush. What about charging stops? Well that is a little different story. Charging stops are simply a time suck. Theoretically you would charge to 80%, or what is need to get to the next stop, and be on your way but when traveling with a family that is a different story. For us each stop typically takes 60min (1 hr). One of the stops comes out in the wash since it involves food, but this works to the ID4's advantage. Since 80% to 100% is only an additional 20 (60min total) we are able to get the full ~245min. The Mach E on the other hand is still trying to get to 80% within those extra 20 minutes and only has 15min of the extra 20min left to add above 80%. That only nets an extra 8 miles. Wait you say, The Mach E has a max DC Charge rate of 150KW but ID4 has 125KW. That is true but because Ford Engineers decide to nerf the charging curve that advantage lasts about 5 min, and that is for 0% to 80%. Above 80% that drops to 11KW while the ID4 keeps trucking at 30-40KW to 90% and then starts a gradual charge rate reduction, unlike the Mach E that falls of a cliff at %80.
Odyssey (3 Stop)(90min)
0-100% 12min ~480mi
ID4 (3 Stops) (*120min)
0-80% 38min ~200mi
80-100% 60min ~245mi
Mach E (4 stops) (*240min)
0-80% 45min ~ 184mi
80-100 123min ~ 230mi
---------
Cost:
When using the ID4 the extra hour was tolerable and the charging was free (3yr Electrify America). Using the Mach E was not quite as fun and the charging was not cheap (580 mi/3.0 k/mi ~ 193.9 KW * $0.42 ~ $81.44). However, cost really isn't a factor for us since I am only paying for it 4 to 5 times per year, but other people might take that into account
Odyssey
$63
ID4
Free (Electrify America)
Mach E
$81.44 (Electrify America)
--------
Summary:
The ID4 was an excellent road tripping car and a very viable replacement for the Odyssey. If it had ~325mi of range in this limited scenario, it completely replaces the Odyssey and would take the same time. The Mach E is a different story. This truly highlights the need for the extended range Mach E and how the charging curve is what really matters. In Ford's defense they have release software update to improve the charging curve, but in my case I have not received any updates, so I can only work with what I got. For the average family making this trip to ask them to add an additional 4 hours is a non-starter (and that assumes no hiccups). It is this reality that is reflected in this survey. The good news is that, that reality will change sooner that rather than later.
Why did we trade the ID4 for the Mach E? Well ... that is another story
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