Consumer Reports: Mach-E vs. Kia EV6

[Mach1E]

I rely on CR. Yes the models for appliance reviews have often changed, but not so for cars. I only went against a CR rec. for cars once and it was a terrible mistake. The CR assessment was spot on.

More coincidence and luck than CR actually telling you which car breaks more.

Not sure if you realize that the difference between the most reliable cars on the road and the “average car” is about 100 problems per 100 vehicles vs around 130 problems per 100.

So the best has about 1 problem and average is 1.3?

Not sure why people obsess over supposed brand/model reliability.

It’s mostly a crap shoot as to whether or not your particular car breaks……. But eventually they all do.

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[DennisD]

More coincidence and luck than CR actually telling you which car breaks more.

Not sure if you realize that the difference between the most reliable cars on the road and the “average car” is about 100 problems per 100 vehicles vs around 130 problems per 100.

So the best has about 1 problem and average is 1.3?

Not sure why people obsess over supposed brand/model reliability.

It’s mostly a crap shoot as to whether or not your particular car breaks……. But eventually they all do.

I really don't think that most people obsess over brand/model reliability but whether the chances of a particular car is more/less likely to be in a repair shop as often as an opposing brand of the same size/cost. In the past 20 years or so, I have switched brands back and forth. In purchasing this Mustang, this is the first time I have purchased a new domestic car in years. Unfortunately, I am having flashbacks of why I never purchased them for years. Similar to going to a McDonalds. One feels compelled (because so many people frequent the place) to go back and try it again. Same results every time. McDonalds usually sucks and so do the domestic brands in terms of quality/reliability.

I purchased a brand new Chevy Cavalier back in the mid 90's and had a host of issues/problems with it. I purchased a brand new Honda Civic and had no issues with it. If you look back at the old issues of CR, you will find the same results.

After purchasing domestic cars exclusively for years, I thought the same thing you did. All cars have issues/problems so why would it matter?

Yes, all cars do have issues but some much more than others. In my particular case, CR has almost mirrored what I personally experienced.

More times than not, domestic brand cars are junk (have more problems) and their counterparts (albeit some are junk) perform better with fewer problems.

There are some anomalies if you will. CR will select domestic brands over their counterparts here and there. That seems about right to me. The domestic brand car manufacturers have the ability to make better cars but why would they? People like you will most surely still buy them. ?

 

[bbulkow]

CR has totally different criteria than I do when buying a car .. looks, performance are the highest, the criteria used by CR are more appropriate for appliances than cars.

Seems like you'd entirely be in the market for a ferarri or a taycan or maybe a tesla., surprised you'd consider a mach-E? Of course looks are subjective, I'm not crazy about the Tesla looks but I kinda hate the mache looks. And the GT is not fast for an electric.

Cargo capacity, reliability, range, buying experience, interior features, price are probably my list in order. All e-things have high enough performance for me, and I don't care about the exterior looks because I won't be looking at it much. I would look at CR for reliability and chuck the rest of their opinions out.

My experience with *model* reliability is there's absoletely a difference. While reliability has greatly improved over the decades, there are cars with significant design flaws, and those flaws greatly impact resale value over time. For example, the mid-aught boxter and the notorious IMS shaft, which allowed me to buy a mid-aught Cayman S (which has a much beefier IMS but was before the engine redesign which removed the shaft) used for pretty cheap. My Honda CRV, I bought the first year of a redesign and a new engine, and the engine has a serious recall, but only for cold weather use and they're not fixing the issue in my state, hopefully my engine doesn't blow up. Car has been super reliable otherwise. This battery thing with the mach e's seems pretty bad, although I'm not tracking how much, and happy to get a '23 which hopefully has the issue *fully* sorted.

 

[Mach1E]

I really don't think that most people obsess over brand/model reliability but whether the chances of a particular car is more/less likely to be in a repair shop as often as an opposing brand of the same size/cost. In the past 20 years or so, I have switched brands back and forth. In purchasing this Mustang, this is the first time I have purchased a new domestic car in years. Unfortunately, I am having flashbacks of why I never purchased them for years. Similar to going to a McDonalds. One feels compelled (because so many people frequent the place) to go back and try it again. Same results every time. McDonalds usually sucks and so do the domestic brands in terms of quality/reliability.

I purchased a brand new Chevy Cavalier back in the mid 90's and had a host of issues/problems with it. I purchased a brand new Honda Civic and had no issues with it. If you look back at the old issues of CR, you will find the same results.

After purchasing domestic cars exclusively for years, I thought the same thing you did. All cars have issues/problems so why would it matter?

Yes, all cars do have issues but some much more than others. In my particular case, CR has almost mirrored what I personally experienced.

More times than not, domestic brand cars are junk (have more problems) and their counterparts (albeit some are junk) perform better with fewer problems.

There are some anomalies if you will. CR will select domestic brands over their counterparts here and there. That seems about right to me. The domestic brand car manufacturers have the ability to make better cars but why would they? People like you will most surely still buy them. ?

That’s the thing.

People like you read CR, then buy a car, have a good or bad experience, then get confirmation bias and label cars as:

1. Good

or

2. Junk

And honestly? That’s complete nonsense.

And even worse than labeling an entire brand “junk” is labeling EVERY car from that county “junk.”

Just ridiculous.

About HALF of the most reliable cars these days are domestic.

The reliability playing field is completely level these days between foreign and domestic.

And the playing field from the “best” vs “average” is much narrower as well.


Again, would you really be taking on that much more risk buying a car brand that averages 1.3 problems per vehicle than the absolute most reliable brand that averages 1 problem per vehicle?

Not sure you could still throw that “junk” label around.

 

[DennisD]

That’s the thing.

People like you read CR, then buy a car, have a good or bad experience, then get confirmation bias and label cars as:

1. Good

or

2. Junk

And honestly? That’s complete nonsense.

And even worse than labeling an entire brand “junk” is labeling EVERY car from that county “junk.”

Just ridiculous.

About HALF of the most reliable cars these days are domestic.

The reliability playing field is completely level these days between foreign and domestic.

And the playing field from the “best” vs “average” is much narrower as well.


Again, would you really be taking on that much more risk buying a car brand that averages 1.3 problems per vehicle than the absolute most reliable brand that averages 1 problem per vehicle?

Not sure you could still throw that “junk” label around.

Up until 2000, I never really paid much attention to CR when purchasing cars. Let's just say I was "young and dumb". ?

When I purchased the Honda Accord in 1999, that was my first non-domestic car purchase. That Honda was so much better than the junk I had previously purchased new. Yes, the previous cars are labeled as such because they were junk. They looked nice but they were crap at then end of the day in comparison. Not sure what you have been driving the last 20+ years but I am guessing domestic brands exclusively. If that is the case, you wouldn't understand what you were missing in comparison.

After I purchased the Honda, I did take a look at CR to see if they agreed with my assessment. They did in almost every car that I purchased.

I did research on an EV before I bought the MME. The MME did receive some good recognition from a host of magazines etc. In fact, the MME was rated very well in the April edition of CR. Once again, I don't use it as an absolute but rather a guide. I had already ordered it at that point but I used that as confirmation of the purchase in Sept. of this year.

So as you can see, I do purchase cars on an individual basis even though many of the "junk" cars that I have purchased happen to have that same badge if you will that were perceived by both me and CR to be junk. Individually, Ford has sold some nice cars in the past but most have been junk. Can you say "Pinto", or "Focus", I could go on but you get the point. Those were pieces of crap.

I am not loyal to any brand. Toyota, Honda and the like have made junk in the past along with every car manufacturer. It just happens that since the 70's, the domestic brands usually came out on top of selling junk. There are/were a few nice ones but at the end of the day, they are crap for the most part as a whole.

Like I said, I don't hold any brand of car above any others but merely look to see what is better than others before I purchase a car. Toyota (most times) come out on top and I have owned quite a few of them. I purchased a Ford this time around and if it ends up being a total piece of crap, I will not be purchasing another one. I will look elsewhere.

 

[devmach-e]

CR has totally different criteria than I do when buying a car .. looks, performance are the highest, the criteria used by CR are more appropriate for appliances than cars.

Sounds like you should be reading Car and Driver, Road & Track, Motortrend, and and other enthusiast oriented publications. Consumer Reports is more focused on things like reliability, safety, functionality, and affordability. Things that a typical consumer who just spent a large chunk of change on are more concerned about. Those things aren't more appropriate for appliances, they're appropriate for anything you spend a lot of money on and expect to last for years.

 

[DennisD]

Sounds like you should be reading Car and Driver, Road & Track, Motortrend, and and other enthusiast oriented publications. Consumer Reports is more focused on things like reliability, safety, functionality, and affordability. Things that a typical consumer who just spent a large chunk of change on are more concerned about. Those things aren't more appropriate for appliances, they're appropriate for anything you spend a lot of money on and expect to last for years.

To me it is quite obvious that the ones that complain that CR isn't reliable has many more times than not, have held a negative view/rating of the cars that they are purchasing or driving.

To me, I don't really have a loyalty to any brand so I don't take it personal. I usually look at many different sites with ratings and if there is a common thread so to speak, one can usually trust that review.

Maybe I am an outlier here, but CR has been spot on for many if not all of the cars I have owned.

 

[Bonehead]

I find all of the CR bashing on this forum interesting. The MME happens to be CR's highest rated EV. The December issue that just came out has a cover story "Our Top Picks of 2022" with the MME on the cover, and two other photos and a paragraph inside. There also happens to be a review of the Genesis GV60, which, while they like very much, doesn't rate as highly as the MME.

 

[Mach1E]

Up until 2000, I never really paid much attention to CR when purchasing cars. Let's just say I was "young and dumb". ?

When I purchased the Honda Accord in 1999, that was my first non-domestic car purchase. That Honda was so much better than the junk I had previously purchased new. Yes, the previous cars are labeled as such because they were junk. They looked nice but they were crap at then end of the day in comparison. Not sure what you have been driving the last 20+ years but I am guessing domestic brands exclusively. If that is the case, you wouldn't understand what you were missing in comparison.

After I purchased the Honda, I did take a look at CR to see if they agreed with my assessment. They did in almost every car that I purchased.

I did research on an EV before I bought the MME. The MME did receive some good recognition from a host of magazines etc. In fact, the MME was rated very well in the April edition of CR. Once again, I don't use it as an absolute but rather a guide. I had already ordered it at that point but I used that as confirmation of the purchase in Sept. of this year.

So as you can see, I do purchase cars on an individual basis even though many of the "junk" cars that I have purchased happen to have that same badge if you will that were perceived by both me and CR to be junk. Individually, Ford has sold some nice cars in the past but most have been junk. Can you say "Pinto", or "Focus", I could go on but you get the point. Those were pieces of crap.

I am not loyal to any brand. Toyota, Honda and the like have made junk in the past along with every car manufacturer. It just happens that since the 70's, the domestic brands usually came out on top of selling junk. There are/were a few nice ones but at the end of the day, they are crap for the most part as a whole.

Like I said, I don't hold any brand of car above any others but merely look to see what is better than others before I purchase a car. Toyota (most times) come out on top and I have owned quite a few of them. I purchased a Ford this time around and if it ends up being a total piece of crap, I will not be purchasing another one. I will look elsewhere.

Nope. I’ve driven and purchased both domestics and imports.

I do think it’s hilarious though that you keep trying to claim you’re open minded and not brand loyal, then repeatedly double down labeling ALL domestic cars “junk.”

Not surprising though, you’re using the same argument people always use to justify their prejudice.

 

[DennisD]

Nope. I’ve driven and purchased both domestics and imports.

I do think it’s hilarious though that you keep trying to claim you’re open minded and not brand loyal, then repeatedly double down labeling ALL domestic cars “junk.”

Not surprising though, you’re using the same argument people always use to justify their prejudice.

Not sure if you understood my previous post.

While I stand behind my statement that Ford etc. have sold "junk" in the past, there are a few outliers as I mentioned that wouldn't fall into that category individually. The MME (hopefully) doesn't fall into that camp so to speak. CR picked it as one of their top picks. If I were brand loyal or disloyal, I would not have purchased a Ford but rather a non-domestic car in your perception of me. I look at individual cars and not the "brand" as a whole when purchasing them.

Let me give you an example for you to understand a little better.

The college team in our State, the Cornhuskers have sucked for years. I would label them as a bad team for the previous 15 years or so. There have been a few good players on this bad team that have gone to the NFL and have done quite well. If I were an owner of an NFL team, I could easily make the statement that, "even though Nebraska Cornhuskers suck, they do have a good quarterback". The MME is the quaterback in this example btw.

So once again, while most products IMO that have been made and sold under the Ford brand since the mid 70's have been junk in comparison, there are a few exceptions that are not and CR seems to back me up on that.

And yes, I am prejudice. I am prejudice against a Company that makes inferior products more times than not. I "pre judge" them but verify it through research of CR. ?

 

[Mach1E]

Not sure if you understood my previous post.

While I stand behind my statement that Ford etc. have sold "junk" in the past, there are a few outliers as I mentioned that wouldn't fall into that category individually. The MME (hopefully) doesn't fall into that camp so to speak. CR picked it as one of their top picks. If I were brand loyal or disloyal, I would not have purchased a Ford but rather a non-domestic car in your perception of me. I look at individual cars and not the "brand" as a whole when purchasing them.

Let me give you an example for you to understand a little better.

The college team in our State, the Cornhuskers have sucked for years. I would label them as a bad team for the previous 15 years or so. There have been a few good players on this bad team that have gone to the NFL and have done quite well. If I were an owner of an NFL team, I could easily make the statement that, "even though Nebraska Cornhuskers suck, they do have a good quarterback". The MME is the quaterback in this example btw.

So once again, while most products IMO that have been made and sold under the Ford brand since the mid 70's have been junk in comparison, there are a few exceptions that are not and CR seems to back me up on that.

And yes, I am prejudice. I am prejudice against a Company that makes inferior products more times than not. I "pre judge" them but verify it through research of CR. ?

You still seem stuck in the past with your comments like:
“There are/were a few nice ones but at the end of the day, they are crap for the most part as a whole.”

and

“More times than not, domestic brand cars are junk.”

Really just isn’t the case anymore. In the 90s? Yeah there was a big quality gap. Not anymore.

And that’s when ALL cars have gotten better. Just look at the “problems per 100 vehicles” tests from 20 years ago.

You really should get your data from multiple sources.

When did domestic cars catch up? Over a decade ago:

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...top-imports-on-quality-for-1st-time-jd-powers

And today? It’s a mix of domestic vs import:
https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2021-us-vehicle-dependability-study-vds

 

[DennisD]

You still seem stuck in the past with your comments like:
“There are/were a few nice ones but at the end of the day, they are crap for the most part as a whole.”

and

“More times than not, domestic brand cars are junk.”

Really just isn’t the case anymore. In the 90s? Yeah there was a big quality gap. Not anymore.

And that’s when ALL cars have gotten better. Just look at the “problems per 100 vehicles” tests from 20 years ago.

You really should get your data from multiple sources.

When did domestic cars catch up? Over a decade ago:

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...top-imports-on-quality-for-1st-time-jd-powers

And today? It’s a mix of domestic vs import:
https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2021-us-vehicle-dependability-study-vds

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/2012/ford/focus

Then 2012 happened. The Ford Focus, which was in your article that you referenced stated that the Ford Focus had made substantial improvements in 2010. Fast forward 2 years later and (by the same company JD Power) rated them #10 in compact ratings.

Once again, there may be a few good players on a bad team but they are still a bad team, and yes anomalies do appear once in a while.

I think it is quite amusing that you referenced an article about the big 3 having severe financial problems in 2010 as well.

Gee, I wonder if it was partially because they were junk and poorly managed.

Import brands took the first 4 spots in your second article for vehicle brands as well. Thanks for the confirmation. ?
Too funny................

 

[Mach1E]

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/2012/ford/focus

Then 2012 happened. The Ford Focus, which was in your article that you referenced stated that the Ford Focus had made substantial improvements in 2010. Fast forward 2 years later and (by the same company JD Power) rated them #10 in compact ratings.

Once again, there may be a few good players on a bad team but they are still a bad team, and yes anomalies do appear once in a while.

I think it is quite amusing that you referenced an article about the big 3 having severe financial problems in 2010 as well.

Gee, I wonder if it was partially because they were junk and poorly managed.

Import brands took the first 4 spots in your second article for vehicle brands as well. Thanks for the confirmation. ?
Too funny................

Imports also took the bottom 3 spots as well.

This “import vs domestic” reliability debate is stuck in the 1990s. Kinda like Consumer Reports.

Did you miss the part where Honda (that you seem to love) is towards the bottom of the list?

This isn’t some “rare anomaly” that a domestic car is reliable.

As you can see from the list, THERE IS NO WINNER is the domestic vs import debate. They both make reliable…..and unreliable vehicles.

Buick and Cadillac? Extremely reliable. Consistently at the top for a long time.

Chrysler? Usually at the bottom.

Toyota? Usually at the top

Land Rover? Usually at the bottom.

Quit trying to lump all “domestics” and “imports” together. It’s just silly.

 

[DennisD]

Imports also took the bottom 3 spots as well.

This “import vs domestic” reliability debate is stuck in the 1990s. Kinda like Consumer Reports.

Did you miss the part where Honda (that you seem to love) is towards the bottom of the list?

This isn’t some “rare anomaly” that a domestic car is reliable.

As you can see from the list, THERE IS NO WINNER is the domestic vs import debate. They both make reliable…..and unreliable vehicles.

Buick and Cadillac? Extremely reliable. Consistently at the top for a long time.

Chrysler? Usually at the bottom.

Toyota? Usually at the top

Land Rover? Usually at the bottom.

Quit trying to lump all “domestics” and “imports” together. It’s just silly.

Hopefully this will be the last correspondence on this.

I purchased a Honda back in 1999. It was by far the best car to date that I had owned. I was burnt for years on the domestic brand up to that point.

I owned a few Honda Civics and they were great as well. I did purchase a Honda Civic Hybrid and it was not the best. I switched over to a Prius and have not gone back to Honda. I have owned many Toyota vehicles and all have been great. CR backs this up as well. Are there Toyota's that are "Junk"? I am sure there are but in general, I would not place them in the same category as Chrysler and the like. Imports can be junk as well. Have you heard of a Yugo? ?

So once again, I choose individual products and I call a spade a spade without feeling "disloyal" to a certain brand.

Btw, I still own a 1981 Corvette that was not made well at all. I think it looks cool and that is why I still own it. If someone were to ask me about reliability of said car I would tell them that they are not good, Junk if you will but I still drive it just like I still watch a poor Football Team.

I really don't see why people would get offended by calling their car unreliable. Now if you were personally involved with the engineering of a poor car, I could see that. Because we are consumers, we rely on reports to lead us to better purchase decisions. Now only if there were some kind of consumer report to not lead us astray?

 

[hetgeleteken]

Hereby a nice side to side photo I made this weekend. The EV6 does not look bad, I do like the rear but the front is a bit shorter. The longer hood does give the Mach E a more muscular appearance.

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