Could Charging Speed Increase to 350 kW via OTA?

[ricksta6]

As the title says, I'm curious if the Mach-E's DC fast charging speed could be improved from the rated 150 kW to 350 kW via a software update, or is there a physics/design limitation that would make it impossible with the current 2021/2022 models?

Obviously the charging curve itself can be improved as they've already done so to bump it to 90%, and there are very few 350 kW DC fast chargers out there, so this point might be moot, but I'm wondering what's stopping such an update if it is possible. Not that the math is difficult but it would make it easier for most folks to compare the Mach-E to the charging speeds found on the EV6 and IONIQ 5 if it were possible.

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[generaltso]

No. The 400V architecture maxes out at 200kW at the 500A max rating of the CCS standard. And the battery in the MME is actually less than 400V, so we won’t even see that.

 

[JohnFoxeSheets]

No. The 400V architecture maxes out at 200kW at the 500A max rating of the CCS standard. And the battery in the MME is actually less than 400V, so we won’t even see that.

Short, definitive, (I presume) accurate. I like that.

 

[Mach-Lee]

Yes, the 500A current limit means nothing above about 185 kW would be possible. The practical limit is in the 160's.

Most we could hope for is a sustained rate above 100 kW all the way to 80%. Start at 160 kW and taper down to 100 kW @ 80% and I'd be happy.

 

[Electric Goat]

The only way that I see charging speeds increasing to at least 200KW is if/when the aftermarket comes up with an upgraded battery pack and software kit. Once these cars start rolling over their 100,000 mile warranty then there will definitely be a demand for replacement packs.

 

[Mach-Lee]

The only way that I see charging speeds increasing to at least 200KW is if/when the aftermarket comes up with an upgraded battery pack and software kit. Once these cars start rolling over their 100,000 mile warranty then there will definitely be a demand for replacement packs.

To hit 200 kW you'd have to complexly replace the architecture with 800V components. I don't see that happening aftermarket, you'd be better off buying a new 800V car. 200+ kW is only possible with higher voltage systems because of the current limit.

 

[Maquis]

To hit 200 kW you'd have to complexly replace the architecture with 800V components. I don't see that happening aftermarket, you'd be better off buying a new 800V car. 200+ kW is only possible with higher voltage systems because of the current limit.

As my late brother would say “Jack up the hood ornament and put a new car under it.”

 

[kltye]

The only way that I see charging speeds increasing to at least 200KW is if/when the aftermarket comes up with an upgraded battery pack and software kit. Once these cars start rolling over their 100,000 mile warranty then there will definitely be a demand for replacement packs.

The pack only cares how many C it's charging at; it's the wiring that limits the amount of current that can be delivered to the pack. Additionally, charging at a high C rate causes massive temperature increases in the pack - whether you have a 400v or 800v architecture. It's frustrating taking longer on roadtrips to charge, but I'm very happy that Ford appear to limit pack temperatures to less than 100 degrees F while charging, rather than letting it hit as high as 130+F as in the EV6 or Ioniq 5.

 

[Electric Goat]

The pack only cares how many C it's charging at; it's the wiring that limits the amount of current that can be delivered to the pack. Additionally, charging at a high C rate causes massive temperature increases in the pack - whether you have a 400v or 800v architecture. It's frustrating taking longer on roadtrips to charge, but I'm very happy that Ford appear to limit pack temperatures to less than 100 degrees F while charging, rather than letting it hit as high as 130+F as in the EV6 or Ioniq 5.

Yes, I agree with all of that. All I'm saying is that maybe there will be an option in the future to upgrade the current mach-e to support faster charging. From what I've seen from Tesla owners is that 100,000 miles on an EV is not the same as 100,000 miles on a standard ICE car. I don't see any reason why well maintained MME's can't go for another 150,000 miles with an aftermarket battery pack 10 years down the line.

 

[kltye]

Yes, I agree with all of that. All I'm saying is that maybe there will be an option in the future to upgrade the current mach-e to support faster charging. From what I've seen from Tesla owners is that 100,000 miles on an EV is not the same as 100,000 miles on a standard ICE car. I don't see any reason why well maintained MME's can't go for another 150,000 miles with an aftermarket battery pack 10 years down the line.

Ohhh, sorry, I misread your post. Yes, I'd love to have replacement packs for a variety of reasons. It's like upgrading your storage or RAM on an older computer, rather than buying a whole new computer.

 

[Raymondjram]

The pack only cares how many C it's charging at; it's the wiring that limits the amount of current that can be delivered to the pack. Additionally, charging at a high C rate causes massive temperature increases in the pack - whether you have a 400v or 800v architecture. It's frustrating taking longer on roadtrips to charge, but I'm very happy that Ford appear to limit pack temperatures to less than 100 degrees F while charging, rather than letting it hit as high as 130+F as in the EV6 or Ioniq 5.

So take shorter trips. And charge at home overnight once. Save time and money.

 

[silverelan]

Yes, the 500A current limit means nothing above about 185 kW would be possible. The practical limit is in the 160's.

Most we could hope for is a sustained rate above 100 kW all the way to 80%. Start at 160 kW and taper down to 100 kW @ 80% and I'd be happy.

I'd be very happy if the MME ER pack could get from 10% to 80% in 30 minutes. Right now under ideal conditions it does it in 41 minutes which is at least 5 minutes too long. We're getting smoked at the charging stations by ID4 at 29 minutes and the Koreans are in another league at 18 minutes.

I'd like to not have to hang around quite so long on a road trip and quicker charging would have a meaningful impact on my trip and ownership experience.

 

[RedStallion]

I don't see any reason why well maintained MME's can't go for another 150,000 miles with an aftermarket battery pack 10 years down the line.

I really doubt practicality of refurbishing a seriously depreciated car with a new expensive battery. And probably, ten years from now most components will be incompatible with the old car. At that point it makes more sense to buy a whole new car.

 

[mjs020294]

I really doubt practicality of refurbishing a seriously depreciated car with a new expensive battery. And probably, ten years from now most components will be incompatible with the old car. At that point it makes more sense to buy a whole new car.

The lifespan of current EVs is most likely going to be fairly short. Tesla owners have seen range steadily decreasing year on year. A lot of the EVs produced today will most likely be scrapped within ten years.

Hopefully the current R&D will result in more durable technologies like solid stae batteries, which will double the life expectancy of the battery packs.

 

[timbop]

Ohhh, sorry, I misread your post. Yes, I'd love to have replacement packs for a variety of reasons. It's like upgrading your storage or RAM on an older computer, rather than buying a whole new computer.

A more apt metaphor would be changing from a 32 bit to 64 bit cpu. You can't just replace the cpu; the bus and everything else has to be upgraded. In a computer that's pretty easy and inexpensive to replace the guts inside of the case, even though it requires changing almost everything except the peripherals (potentially including the power supply). Doing that in a car is problematic.

As @Maquis said the cheaper procedure would be to replace the car.

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