DC Charging Seems Expensive

[JohnnyForensic]

I'm starting to prepare for the MME and ran some charging numbers. I pay about $.10 per kwh hour at home which is less than gas at $3.50.

DC charging seems to be $.31 or $.41 a kwh which could be more than gas. Plus you have to wait 45 min or so to fill up. It does not seem practical for road trips unless DC charging costs get close to what you pay at home.

I think our plan will be to use the MME primarily for commuting and short trips. I don't think we will use the free couple of hours of charging at Target and other places. Charging at home overnight seems to be the best bang for the buck.

I can see why so many people get the ID.4 for the three free years DC charging. I tried to like the ID.4 but couldn't. We are looking forward to the MME and preparing for it is fun.

I’d also be curious how much you road trip. If you’re talking about once or twice in a year, the cost difference for the trips specifically would be negligible. If you’re road tripping beyond home charging capacity a few times a month, then I could see how it might add up a bit, but honestly, the delta between gas and electric pricing isn’t THAT great per mile. I’d look more at “is the car comfortable for frequent road trips,” and “will my family tolerate a 30 minute stop every couple of hours?” If the answer is yes to those two questions, I think that might be more important than a few cents either direction with an occasional trip.

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[RW Journey]

According to my calculations from the recent trip, there is no difference paying by min or by kWh. The average charging speed I got from EA chargers was 1.28kWh/min. So 32c/min would be almost exactly 41c/kWh.
And, of course you won't get that range on intestate. I've got 2.8mi/kWh average for the whole trip with as low as 2.1mi/kWh on some portions. It's not less expensive than gas cars, which usually get more efficient at highway speeds.

That math doesn't look correct.
1.28kWh/min @.32/min would be .25/kWh (.32 / 1.28kWh) = .25

 

[noname]

Yes, it is more than gas, makes no sense to take the car for a road trip.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

That’s A bargain. In Maine DCFC is $0.49/kWH for a 50kW machine and our home rate is $0.18.

At the extreme southwest end of the country, Hawaii, we’re paying 51¢ per kWh during off peak (9 am to 5 pm) on 50 kW chargers and 65¢ per kWh 10 pm through 9 am. The base rate at home is about 30¢. Gas runs $4.20 per US gallon. Electricity is still cheaper.

 

[Shayne]

I'm starting to prepare for the MME and ran some charging numbers. I pay about $.10 per kwh hour at home which is less than gas at $3.50.

DC charging seems to be $.31 or $.41 a kwh which could be more than gas. Plus you have to wait 45 min or so to fill up. It does not seem practical for road trips unless DC charging costs get close to what you pay at home.

I think our plan will be to use the MME primarily for commuting and short trips. I don't think we will use the free couple of hours of charging at Target and other places. Charging at home overnight seems to be the best bang for the buck.

I can see why so many people get the ID.4 for the three free years DC charging. I tried to like the ID.4 but couldn't. We are looking forward to the MME and preparing for it is fun.

What you are forgetting is the efficiency between the two techs. Gas is equal to an energy of 33.4 KW per gallon therefore the MME carries 90/33.4 or 2.7 gallons to do 250 miles. You need to compare that to the efficiency of ICE and you will see a difference. A moderate length trip I do a lot in the in truck would cost about $160 and in the MME it was $35 which included off peak fill up to 100% when I got back home. The truck would not be full when I get home or filled back up at home. We pay about 45c a KWh here. Did 20 minute charges on the road there and back (normal pee stops) and 50 minutes when I got to the big city. So 70 minutes there and 20 back.

Edit: We only have 50 KW chargers here right now.

 

[Garbone]

Putting a new roof on this year and it will have solar panels. As for DC charging, yup, road tripping is not a reason to buy electric.

 

[Shayne]

Putting a new roof on this year and it will have solar panels. As for DC charging, yup, road tripping is not a reason to buy electric.

It will be the only one I will be road tripping with from now on. ICE not a chance. Do the math I charged in the big city near my little sisters and she came over for a 50 minute chat. Blinked and it was charged at about 45 KW. I am pretty confident Ford will look into charging improvements for the MME and the charging stations will only get better. The MME does 1000 Km in 11.5 hours right now and there are other EV's that can do much better. It is the quite and relaxing driving experience that makes that 50 minutes mute for me. Never in a huge rush anyway.

 

[timbop]

Yes, it is more than gas, makes no sense to take the car for a road trip.

Really? The extra $20 to $60 doesn't seem like it should be the single criterion on which to decide. Having blue cruise seems easily worth that small difference in cost, particularly since gas prices are so variable (and likely to increase).

1000 mi / 3 mi per kw * $.43 per kw = $143
1000 mi / 3 mi per kw * $.31 = $103
1000 mi / 25 mpg * $3 per gallon = $120
1000 mi / 35 mpg * $3 = $86

 

[galaxyeagles2]

The personal savings of the operational cost varies very much by what the comparison is made against. If you make the comparison against an ICE car getting 35+mpg it’s going to be a completely different result. I drive ~1000 miles a week working out of town so I only charge at home Friday/Sunday. We have free to me chargers at the job site but I have to fast charge on the way there and back to home. I also have a 2015 Explorer with the 3.5 eco boost that I was daily driving previously. I use it to tow my boat so I mostly run premium fuel in it and it gets 18-20mpg. If I drive the Explorer for the week it costs me $150-$175 in gas. All in with charging I pay for each week (home and dc fast) costs me under $35 a week. Even if they didn’t have the chargers at work it’d still be under $50 a week in the MME.

 

[markboris]

I charge at home (solar) 98% of the time and mainly use my MME for around town and short trips (less than 200 miles). However, on a few long trips I have taken, I've used several free public DC fast chargers just to try them out. In Yosemite National Park, there are about 6 DC fast chargers scattered around the park and all are free. I charged my car there last week. My parents live in the SF bay area and there are over 100 Volta DC fast charging stations and all are free for at least 30 minutes and some up to 2 hours. Then of course there are the hundreds of Tesla destination chargers which are free (need an adapter) in the SF bay area. I know many here on the forum don't live in large metropolitan areas (I don't either) but if you do, there are alternatives to charging at pay chargers.

 

[Shayne]

The personal savings of the operational cost varies very much by what the comparison is made against. If you make the comparison against an ICE car getting 35+mpg it’s going to be a completely different result. I drive ~1000 miles a week working out of town so I only charge at home Friday/Sunday. We have free to me chargers at the job site but I have to fast charge on the way there and back to home. I also have a 2015 Explorer with the 3.5 eco boost that I was daily driving previously. I use it to tow my boat so I mostly run premium fuel in it and it gets 18-20mpg. If I drive the Explorer for the week it costs me $150-$175 in gas. All in with charging I pay for each week (home and dc fast) costs me under $35 a week. Even if they didn’t have the chargers at work it’d still be under $50 a week in the MME.

Same result different story. Its cheaper also if you fill up at home before and when you come back and even better if off peak (plugging into a 110V when you get to a designation can also help). Guess if you calculate 100% DCFC it is tight but you can start at 100% (20% of your 1000 miles at home rates) return with less than 100% and the lower percentage on your return the cheaper it is due to home charging. I am tripping in the MME.

 

[medicnj]

Really? The extra $20 to $60 doesn't seem like it should be the single criterion on which to decide. Having blue cruise seems easily worth that small difference in cost, particularly since gas prices are so variable (and likely to increase).

1000 mi / 3 mi per kw * $.43 per kw = $143
1000 mi / 3 mi per kw * $.31 = $103
1000 mi / 25 mpg * $3 per gallon = $120
1000 mi / 35 mpg * $3 = $86

My other car, a '16 Edge gets 18 mpg avg and needs super @ $ 3.50 / gal.... It's going no-where !

 

[BadgerGreg]

It's easy to understand why DC charging is so expensive. When you pay an electric utility to provide a service connection to a building/facility, there are two key components: actual metered demand (per kWh) and max available power demand. The latter is a BIG deal, as this impacts power generation infrastructure, and electric utilities charge for the cost of expanding power generation capacity to accommodate 'hungry' commercial customers who require a high power demand. I've seen specific examples (like municipal pump station facilities) pay well over $50-$100K for to a connection to the grid for this very reason.

Residential customers never fall into this category, but larger commercial and industrial facilities do. This is why the residential vs. DCFC rates are so far apart. A DCFC charging station requires a relatively high max power demand, and the owners of the DCFC facilities are paying a HUGE upfront (and probably elevated monthly/annual) cost to the utility companies to open a big 'spigot' of electrons.

Assuming DCFC stations continue to proliferate, electric utilities will, theoretically, use this revenue to add power generation capacity, which they will HAVE to do to keep up with additional peak demand from thirsty DC chargers, especially when our cars are all able to take 150-200 kW or more.

So, to put it another way, the higher costs you're paying at the DCFC chargers are basically subsidizing the future (and necessary) expansion of our electrical generation infrastructure. Hopefully that will be mostly wind, solar, and, yes, even nuclear.

 

[BadgerGreg]

Really? The extra $20 to $60 doesn't seem like it should be the single criterion on which to decide. Having blue cruise seems easily worth that small difference in cost, particularly since gas prices are so variable (and likely to increase).

1000 mi / 3 mi per kw * $.43 per kw = $143
1000 mi / 3 mi per kw * $.31 = $103
1000 mi / 25 mpg * $3 per gallon = $120
1000 mi / 35 mpg * $3 = $86

And the above comparison doesn't take into account likely cost reductions for EVs due to free destination charging. Most savvy EV road-trippers work in at least 25%-30% of the total charging as free Level 2.

 

[galaxyeagles2]

Same result different story. Its cheaper also if you fill up at home before and when you come back and even better if off peak (plugging into a 110V when you get to a designation can also help). Guess if you calculate 100% DCFC it is tight but you can start at 100% (20% of your 1000 miles at home rates) return with less than 100% and the lower percentage on your return the cheaper it is due to home charging. I am tripping in the MME.

Exactly, that’s how my week goes. I leave home at 100%. Charge to 80% at DCFC. Charge at work during the week. Leave work at about 100% and try to arrive home with less than 10%. DCFC the rate is for the convenience and I only use it as necessary.

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