Delete me

[DYohn]

When I decided to install solar I didn't care a rodent's derrière about "payback" on the investment. I still don't. I just wanted to cut my cost of living down and stop using power from the grid as much as possible. I achieved that goal. I had the money and I spent it. It's not an "investment" to me except in my own sense of well-being.

It's the same reason I started buying elecric vehicles years ago. I just didn't want to buy any more gas. Simple.

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[ChuckA]

I have solar running on a net meter but without backup battery. With the net meter it banks kWh like what is done with cell phone minutes. In a power failure the solar and power is off.

Years ago I bought a 7500 kWh portable generator and had the hookup wired into the house with a 20 foot cord. I manually set it up and start it as needed. Used it 10 times in 23 years. Cost sbout $1700.

As far as the 26% federal tax credit is concerned, this credit is signed over to the solar company and should be reflected in your project cost. Your income tax liability doesn’t matter.

You should be able to “lease” the system, at a per kWh rate, without putting any deposit down. My lease is held by Sunnova Energy for 25 years with a $1 buyout. It includes monitoring, maintenance, and insurance.

 

[ChuckA]

Viviant is now owned by Sunrun. The house I bought in San Diego unfortunately had a Viviant system with a power purchase agreement a prior owner had signed up for. I can't buy them out for another 4 years. I am sure they are going to try to inflate the buy out.

So I am limited on adding additional solar panels and backup without doing a complicated system.

If you signed to accept assignment of the power purchase agreement, you are entitled to a copy of the original paperwork that specify the buyout cost at end of each of the 25 years. It’s a contract they can’t inflate.

It is tough to add to a system that is already in place. My system was pre-MME. I’m trying to add to my system and no one will call me back.

 

[dtbaker61]

When I decided to install solar I didn't care a rodent's derrière about "payback" on the investment. I still don't. I just wanted to cut my cost of living down and stop using power from the grid as much as possible. I achieved that goal. I had the money and I spent it. It's not an "investment" to me except in my own sense of well-being.

It's the same reason I started buying elecric vehicles years ago. I just didn't want to buy any more gas. Simple.

I got into Solar when I built my first BEV in 2008, I didn't want to drive a coal powered EV....

 

[bpbailey]

Here’s my problem with leasing and why I tell every to never do it.
you’re stuck in a contract which makes selling your home difficult. Then at the end of your contract what do you do? Pay them even more money to keep the now really old system?
your monthly cost is likely more than what an inflated solar loan would have been anyways. If you generate more than what you use you literally lose money since you’re paying the solar company for production vs usage which is several times more than the credit. Never get a system over 100% when leasing. The idea that you won’t have to pay for repairs to the equipment is irrelevant since most systems have 25-30 year warranties.

My parents have a vivint/sunrun lease and they only did that because they live on a golf course. 6 or so broken panels so far and now sunrun doesnt want to fix them anymore. Atleast in this situation, no one’s making any money lol.

To each his/her own, but I like the idea that I did not pay (finance) $25K to have my system installed, that I have zero maintenance/repair responsibilities and costs, and that I am grandfathered into Net Metering 2.0. If I sell my home, the buyer would retain the Net Metering 2.0 benefit and the associated fixed electricity costs. At the rate that electricity costs are rising (SDG&E just raised electricity rates nearly 8%), I believe that most potential buyers would see this as a benefit, not a detraction. My contract guarantees an annual rate increase of 2.9% (for the entire 25 years) and I have it in writing that they will remove the system and restore my roof to its original status at the end of the 25-year lease.

 

[83girl]

Short version:
Predatory sales techniques led to lies. Does anyone have a solar/battery company they would recommend?

Long version:
I have been seeing advertisements for a certain solar company with a battery backup. I am hesitant to mention the name of the company, lets call them BrandX, because I don't want to start anything dramatic in the forum or have big lawyers causing trouble. Suffice it to say I am very unhappy with the BrandX (btw it was NOT Tesla).

In the last 7 or 8 years there have been a few weather related outages in my area, two ice storms, a winter storm (I wouldn't call it a blizzard but the news did) and a tornado. Because of this I wanted a system to allow me to run appliances (refrigerators, freezers and charging the MME) during an extended outage. Hopefully I could shift some of the cost of charging away from my local utility company and potentially increase the value of my home.

BrandX insisted that I would have a low payment, but didn't tell me that the number they gave me was IF I qualified for a tax credit worth 26% of the installed system price... IF I qualified AND made an down payment on the loan that matched the lifetime value of the credits. After a lengthy meeting with my CPA, we have determined that short of opening a business, I simply do not have enough tax liability to use any meaningful tax credits for the solar install (I will not even be able to use the entirety of the $7,500 for the MME). This led to quite the convoluted conversation with the "solar salesman", I finally got the real loan payment numbers from them (33% higher monthly payment, adding $24,000 to the overall cost of the loan). Ultimately, they then outright lied to me to try to get me to sign the loan contract.

Sorry for the rant... so, can anyone recommend a company that does Solar/Battery systems?

We installed a tesla solar roof last spring with three powerwalls. Then bought the mach e. The tesla system is pretty impressive. Have had zero issues with it. It cost a bit, but we needed our roof replaced anyway, so it made sense from a financial perspective.

 

[Motomax]

To each his/her own, but I like the idea that I did not pay (finance) $25K to have my system installed, that I have zero maintenance/repair responsibilities and costs, and that I am grandfathered into Net Metering 2.0. If I sell my home, the buyer would retain the Net Metering 2.0 benefit and the associated fixed electricity costs. At the rate that electricity costs are rising (SDG&E just raised electricity rates nearly 8%), I believe that most potential buyers would see this as a benefit, not a detraction. My contract guarantees an annual rate increase of 2.9% (for the entire 25 years) and I have it in writing that they will remove the system and restore my roof to its original status at the end of the 25-year lease.

Solar doesn’t really have any maintenance and the good ones have 25 year warranty that covers labor so leasing doesn’t help in that aspect unless they get physically damaged.
You are paying for it though, that kWh rate you pay them that goes up every year would be $0 if you purchased them.
I think my break even Point is 7-8 years on my system and adds to the value of my home-lease does not. it covers more than 100% usage so rate increases are irrelevant until nem 2.0 runs out. I didn’t do a loan because it’s a lot cheaper to pay cash but the monthly cost would have been around $100 (for 20years I think) for a 7.2kW system from sunpower which is a more expensive brand.
To each their own but I think it’s important people considering leasing realize the difference.

 

[Blackbluff]

I had SunPro out of Louisiana install my system. It is designed to supply a maximum of 10.2 KWh and has a Powerwall battery for storage at 13.4 KWh. Works great when the sun shines. I find myself managing my usage based on chasing the sun. Instead of charging at night when I'm depending on battery, I charge during the daytime to maximize usage of solar generating time. I am retired so timing is not an issue. The only surprise for me was the energy flow into and back from the battery is pegged at 5 KWh max. So, if I'm generating 8.0 KWh, using 1.5 KWh in house, the battery is getting 5.0 KWh and the balance of 1.5 KWh is going back to the grid. Loving my MME and solar to feed it.

 

[bruceski88]

That works great until I need to go to work. With the car gone, the battery is also. Never mind lowering the range by running parts of my house on it while I am at home AND also still driving it.

I have solar with net metering so no way powerwall makes any economic sense. I am thinking about how to safely have backup power for frig and freezer plus charging phones. Goal Zero 1KWhr semi portable battery seems like a possible solution, just still too expensive right now. Keeping it charged with Mach-e, one disconnected solar panel DC output, or just buying the portable Goal Zero panel are all options. The only one I can figure out how to do safely and reliably is buying a dedicated panel.

 

[ChuckA]

I have solar with net metering so no way powerwall makes any economic sense. I am thinking about how to safely have backup power for frig and freezer plus charging phones. Goal Zero 1KWhr semi portable battery seems like a possible solution, just still too expensive right now. Keeping it charged with Mach-e, one disconnected solar panel DC output, or just buying the portable Goal Zero panel are all options. The only one I can figure out how to do safely and reliably is buying a dedicated panel.

I also have net metering so agree that a powerwall makes no economic sense. My house was wired pre-Solar for a cutover and hookup for a portable generator. Why risk damaging a $60k MME for a short term solution?

 

[dtbaker61]

That works great until I need to go to work. With the car gone, the battery is also. Never mind lowering the range by running parts of my house on it while I am at home AND also still driving it.

presumably in a major outage you *probably* won't be going to work....
Or, you could add a few stationary batteries to stay at home and cover the time you are out. The 'basic' system I've been putting in for people has 4kWhr per shelf, and 1,2, or 3 shelves of batteries to stay home.... then, custom 'jumper cables' when the MME is home to put in parallel by jumpering from MME 12v connection points to backstop/charge the stationary batteries.

Keep in mind a couple things:
- you MUST be isolated from the grid (Main = off) before using any Generator
- you must also turn off existing grid-tie PV since the grid-tied inverters should NOT be active
- you will have to turn MME on, and the setting for auto-off will have to = OFF so that the 12v system is held at 14+ volts by the HV->dc-dc converter.
- max load *should not* exceed 2000 watts to be nice to the dc-dc converter topping up the stationary batteries as fast as you are using the energy

 

[dtbaker61]

I also have net metering so agree that a powerwall makes no economic sense. My house was wired pre-Solar for a cutover and hookup for a portable generator. Why risk damaging a $60k MME for a short term solution?

your MME is only a POSSIBLE giant backup to a small (affordable) Solar 'generator' for multi-day outages..... if you have an auto-transfer already installed, its not hard to design a little battery based 'generator' instead of a propane/NG generator.

I think EVs are the ultimate solution for double use of a LOT of available Energy for backup without having to buy a whole separate battery bank that you rarely use.

I.e. design the backup system around a small (4,6,or maybe 8kWhr) to keep cost down.... knowing you likely have access to 60-100kWhr from your EV via the 12v connection points. Just 'jump' the stationary battery rack if it gets low. connecting your MME 12v connection points to the BBU will pull maybe 40 amps or so (14.5volts at MME -> 12.x v) and 'support' the little BBU.

 

[ChuckA]

your MME is only a POSSIBLE giant backup to a small (affordable) Solar 'generator' for multi-day outages..... if you have an auto-transfer already installed, its not hard to design a little battery based 'generator' instead of a propane/NG generator.

I think EVs are the ultimate solution for double use of a LOT of available Energy for backup without having to buy a whole separate battery bank that you rarely use.

I.e. design the backup system around a small (4,6,or maybe 8kWhr) to keep cost down.... knowing you likely have access to 60-100kWhr from your EV via the 12v connection points. Just 'jump' the stationary battery rack if it gets low. connecting your MME 12v connection points to the BBU will pull maybe 40 amps or so (14.5volts at MME -> 12.x v) and 'support' the little BBU.

Maybe for an engineer that knows what they’re doing. I’m an accountant and don’t look for solutions to problems I don’t have.

 

[dtbaker61]

Maybe for an engineer that knows what they’re doing. I’m an accountant and don’t look for solutions to problems I don’t have.

you may be an accountant, who knows engineers, who know what problems you are GOING to have, and how to fix them

 

[OH2AZ2OH]

I might be breaking even with mine. It's close enough that I'm not too concerned either way. Leasing always seemed pretty shady. The financing offered by my installer was a little higher interest than I wanted, and resulted in a negative return.

I knew I was going to get solar when my MME finally arrived. I sold my old car to Carvana for $6k more than the dealer offered, which way more than offset the sales tax advantage of trading it in to the dealer. Instead of applying the trade value to the MME, that $ went to the solar system. I then financed more of the MME at the really low Ford rate. It's a shorter loan term, but it works out in my case.

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