JoseLuisDeLaCruz

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The Ford Mustang Mach-E “First Edition” is EPA rated at 270 miles on a 88 kWh (usable, 98 kWh total) battery. When I set out for our 180-Mile Vermont snowboarding trip, the range given by the Mach-E was about 204 miles based on previous driving and the outside temperature. If our Tesla Model Y had said that, we wouldn’t have made it. However, the Mach-E was actually under-guessing its range vs. our Model Y, which overestimates it. Luckily, there are EVGO 50kW chargers along the route if there were issues.



  • It turns out we actually gained some mileage expectations along the way and made it to the ski condo with about 40 miles of range left. So if you include the mountain climb at the end, that’s pretty fantastic. Also, if you include Tesla’s optimistic range vs. the Mustang’s pessimistic range, we landed with about the same range or percentage of battery as our Model Y. The Mustang’s battery is much bigger with 88kWh usable vs. Tesla’s 75kWh, but its EPA range is lower. Conclusion here: Those are a real 270 miles of range, and even in snow and up a mountain, the Mustang was on track to get very close to that stated range. It wouldn’t surprise me to see Ford OTA update the battery to shrink the buffer and get closer to 300 miles of range in this car like Jaguar and Audi have done with their LG packs.
It was cold and up hill and he tell you that is was an estimate based off other people driving.

Then he says the range was the same as his tesla. Yawn the sky is falling guy.

The thing is the tesla model y wouldn’t give you an estimate of 204 miles and it definitely would travel further than 204 miles. Are you saying it wouldn’t? Are you saying it will travel less than the Mach-E?
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The thing is the tesla model y wouldn’t give you an estimate of 204 miles and it definitely would travel further than 204 miles. Are you saying it wouldn’t? Are you saying it will travel less than the Mach-E?
He was quoting the article. Did you give it a read?
 

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So I was 100% sold on the MME but now that I'm on the cusp of placing an order I feel like I ought to do at least a little more due diligence re the Model Y. There's no question the MME looks nicer, but I don't want to make a bad decision based on looks alone.

Based upon what I can garner, the MME Extended AWD costs $3-5k less than a Tesla Long Range AWD (after adjustments for things like X-plan, tax credit, ford credit incentive, etc.).

Re range, the EPA says Tesla gets around 325 to MME's 270, but it sounds like the MME actually gets pretty close to that number whereas the MY is a bit more inflated.

Re efficiency, the MY gets 100 miles to 27kWh, versus 37kWh for the MME. Again, it's possible the MY's number are a little more inflated but it basically amounts to an electricity savings of around $150 per year with the MY assuming 15,000 miles and 12 cents / kWh. It would take 10 years to recoup half of the MY's price premium.

The MY has the supercharger network - hand's down better - but it still takes 30-45 minutes to get charged back up to 80%? Also, the free charging is only for one year and I don't think that promotion is currently running anyway?

Finally there' the tech, and specifically autonomous driving. This part I can't figure out. It seems like both cars comes with pretty comparable autonomous driving tech out of the box? For TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS MORE, Tesla will give you on-ramp to off-ramp autonomous driving, including lane changes, and the promise of city autonomous driving in the future. Whereas Ford is not making these promises and is way behind Tesla, but I presume will at least be offering on-ramp to off-ramp autonomous driving via an OTA update, and probably for a lot less than 10 Gs.

Seriously: I don't want to sell Tesla short. Am I missing something such that I should consider paying more money for an uglier car? Is the included autonomous driving tech (I think the $10k upgrade is a foolishly speculative waste of money) so superior that I ought to give the MY a look?
Neither car has autonomous driving or anything close to it no matter what a manufacturer might call it.
 

JoseLuisDeLaCruz

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He was quoting the article. Did you give it a read?
Yes I did so you are saying he was just restating what the article was saying? What was the point of that?
 

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Mach-E VLOG

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No answer? Very interesting! Can you explain instead of sending a picture? Thanks! Much appreciated!
Don't ask me. I'm not him. He is not me.

A picture says a thousand words.
 

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No answer? Very interesting! Can you explain instead of sending a picture? Thanks! Much appreciated!
If you actually read the piece, Seth Weintraub says that the GOM on the Mach-E is more pessimistic in its range estimation than his personal Tesla Model Y.

Seth says that with 204 miles range showing on his Model Y, he would not have attempted the 180mi drive from NY to VT. The Mach-E on the other hand made the 180mi journey with 40 miles range remaining and the SoC was the same as his Model Y would have been in.
 

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The thing is the tesla model y wouldn’t give you an estimate of 204 miles and it definitely would travel further than 204 miles. Are you saying it wouldn’t? Are you saying it will travel less than the Mach-E?
What I'm saying is if you READ the article written. He is saying the range is an estimate of how you have been driving. So he might have been flooring it and driving crazy and on the trip, he drove normal so the range was more but "ford" does not want you to worry what you might not have in range, So they give you an estimate from the driving that has been done in the car. Model y Just gave him a range and if he drives it hard he will be left saying, but the model y said I could have made it why not.

When he got there he noticed that the model and the mache took about the same range and mpg. He noticed that is was not a big difference between the two and the mache did as well as his model y and it surprised him how well the mache did.


On the last test drive, I got I picked up the mache with 95% battery and it showed an estimated range of only 224. So the people have been driving it hard. But we went 189 miles with 26% charge left.
 
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guyofthesky

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I'm basing this off of the numerous reviews I've seen which claim that the car drives like a RWD car and not like an AWD, in spirited driving. I don't have any objective data to back this up.
Here's the most recent reviewer to claim this:
It is true that the AWD MME has a rear wheel drive feeling--you can get the rear end to swing out with acceleration in corners. I assume that this was intentionally done, as it would be possible to configure the motors not to allow this.

Presumably, you allow the rear motor to both spin the tires a little and to spin slightly faster than the front tires? Whatever, I like it. ;)
 

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What I'm saying is if you READ the article written. He is saying the range is an estimate of how you have been driving. So he might have been flooring it and driving crazy and on the trip, he drove normal so the range was more but "ford" does not want you to worry what you might not have in range, So they give you an estimate from the driving that has been done in the car. Model y Just gave him a range and if he drives it hard he will be left saying, but the model y said I could have made it why not.

When he got there he noticed that the model and the mache took about the same range and mpg. He noticed that is was not a big difference between the two and the mache did as well as his model y and it surprised him how well the mache did.


On the last test drive, I got I picked up the mache with 95% battery and it showed an estimated range of only 224. So the people have been driving it hard. But we went 189 miles with 26% charge left.
I have said this before, so I apologize for repeating. But in my estimation, the only real test to compare the range of all these EVs would be to gather a half dozen different cars, as many as we can get, and charge them all to the top with a Level 2 charger. Then they'd all start driving together, no drafting, of course, and drive for 2-3 hours on the highway. Minimize regen braking, because it's highway miles that we all care about in this conversation.

Same distance driven, same speeds, same roads, etc. We'd stop and measure SOC of the various batteries, and using the known battery capacities, we'd have a real-world comparison of the miles/kwhr of all of them.

I would love this comparison...
 

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I have said this before, so I apologize for repeating. But in my estimation, the only real test to compare the range of all these EVs would be to gather a half dozen different cars, as many as we can get, and charge them all to the top with a Level 2 charger. Then they'd all start driving together, no drafting, of course, and drive for 2-3 hours on the highway. Minimize regen braking, because it's highway miles that we all care about in this conversation.

Same distance driven, same speeds, same roads, etc. We'd stop and measure SOC of the various batteries, and using the known battery capacities, we'd have a real-world comparison of the miles/kwhr of all of them.

I would love this comparison...
InsideEVs / Out of Spec Motoring is planning on this project this summer in Colorado.
 

Mach-E VLOG

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InsideEVs / Out of Spec Motoring is planning on this project this summer in Colorado.
Yeah, Kyle mentioned that to me on our first. Depending on the availability of Mach-Es for them to test, my Mach-E might be the one they use. It would be a lot of fun to see the wide variety of EVs together all at once. I'll let you guys know if I hear anything else.
 

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So I was 100% sold on the MME but now that I'm on the cusp of placing an order I feel like I ought to do at least a little more due diligence re the Model Y. There's no question the MME looks nicer, but I don't want to make a bad decision based on looks alone.

Based upon what I can garner, the MME Extended AWD costs $3-5k less than a Tesla Long Range AWD (after adjustments for things like X-plan, tax credit, ford credit incentive, etc.).

Re range, the EPA says Tesla gets around 325 to MME's 270, but it sounds like the MME actually gets pretty close to that number whereas the MY is a bit more inflated.

Re efficiency, the MY gets 100 miles to 27kWh, versus 37kWh for the MME. Again, it's possible the MY's number are a little more inflated but it basically amounts to an electricity savings of around $150 per year with the MY assuming 15,000 miles and 12 cents / kWh. It would take 10 years to recoup half of the MY's price premium.

The MY has the supercharger network - hand's down better - but it still takes 30-45 minutes to get charged back up to 80%? Also, the free charging is only for one year and I don't think that promotion is currently running anyway?

Finally there' the tech, and specifically autonomous driving. This part I can't figure out. It seems like both cars comes with pretty comparable autonomous driving tech out of the box? For TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS MORE, Tesla will give you on-ramp to off-ramp autonomous driving, including lane changes, and the promise of city autonomous driving in the future. Whereas Ford is not making these promises and is way behind Tesla, but I presume will at least be offering on-ramp to off-ramp autonomous driving via an OTA update, and probably for a lot less than 10 Gs.

Seriously: I don't want to sell Tesla short. Am I missing something such that I should consider paying more money for an uglier car? Is the included autonomous driving tech (I think the $10k upgrade is a foolishly speculative waste of money) so superior that I ought to give the MY a look?
Good post. Can't hurt to look at the Tesla. Could be fun to drive it!

But I really think that most of us decide with our heart while telling ourselves (and everyone else) that we decided based on logic. ;)
 
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