Elon's Prediction

[DevSecOps]

I would happily pay a few more bucks for my next car knowing that the workers who built it were well-paid for their efforts and had mutual respect with the company. There was this guy named Henry Ford who had a similar perspective.

So well paid is what??? $33 an hour with a $70/hr total comp package in a state where $19 is the average hourly isn't well-paid? They are asking for $46.20 base with a free day and a $90/hr comp package including 5 weeks of PTO/yr.

Your Henry Ford comment is based on incorrect information. Henry Ford implemented the $5 work day because he wanted to reduce turnover. Turnover in those days was extremely costly. In 1913, Ford hired more than 52,000 men to keep a workforce of only 14,000. He figured that paying more would reduce the turnover and therefore save the company in the long run. It was purely a business decisions with some PR thrown in about being able to afford a vehicle. This was all triggered by his inability to sell vehicles for a profit while keeping the cost of the vehicle down. In this case raising wages actually reduced total overhead and kept the cars at a reasonable price that people could afford.

Additionally, the $5 day was 1/2 earnings 1/2 bonus, but the bonus came with character requirements and was enforced by the Socialization Organization. This was a committee that would visit the employees' homes to ensure that they were doing things the "American way." They were supposed to avoid social ills such as gambling and drinking. They were to learn English, and many (primarily the recent immigrants) had to attend classes to become "Americanized."

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[Mach1E]

I haven't scrolled through this entire thread and am not convinced it's worth my time to do so but I have a question for all of the folks who talk about (and seem to cheer) that all of these human workers will be replaced by robots in the near future...

In this capitalist utopia that you envision where the workers are a mere obstacle in the never ending thirst for more profit, who exactly is buying all of this Robot made shit? Last I checked Robots don't buy cars, hamburgers, or blue jeans and certainly don't need health care or medications per se.

It's called UBI people. Look into it. Robots are coming but I for one am not cheering for that side. You do you though, boo.

Like he said, no one here was praising robots.

It’s more of a warning.

If you demand pay too high, you’ll get replaced by a robot.

That said, robots doing jobs more efficiently than people can is actually good for people. It’s macroeconomics 101. People can then get other jobs (like building and repairing robots). But the important part is being more efficient. More efficiency means more stuff gets built/done and we all end up with more stuff.

There was a time where our job options were hunting and gathering. Technology made our lives better.

Sucks for the individuals who lose their jobs to robots at first though.

I always loved these posters! ?

 

[Socalsp3]

Seriously? So according to you, they are slaves and forced to work at Tesla?

You realize that Telsa is rated higher in satisfaction to work at than Ford, GM, Honda, Toyota with some workforce reporting companies right? With other's wages and benefit satisfactory ratings are basically on par with everyone else.

Really? A quick search says otherwise

https://www.glassdoor.com/Compare/Ford-Motor-Company-vs-Tesla-EI_IE263-E43129.htm#:~:text=449 Salaries-,Employee Ratings,1 area: Positive Business Outlook.
https://www.indeed.com/companies/co...ny-vs-Tesla-fcdbee5f182b50a7-f6964b349e98c35e

I'm sure you'd like to be a slave to Elon

 

[DevSecOps]

Really? A quick search says otherwise

https://www.glassdoor.com/Compare/Ford-Motor-Company-vs-Tesla-EI_IE263-E43129.htm#:~:text=449 Salaries-,Employee Ratings,1 area: Positive Business Outlook.
https://www.indeed.com/companies/co...ny-vs-Tesla-fcdbee5f182b50a7-f6964b349e98c35e

Maybe read what I said?

" wages and benefit satisfactory ratings are basically on par "

From your links - 3.7/3.9 and 3.6/4.1 - I would consider that "on par"

And here's some links that are the opposite as the ones you posted:

https://www.comparably.com/companies/tesla-motors
https://www.comparably.com/companies/ford-motor-company

So... yeah a quick search says I carefully chose my words for a reason! My point, which is at the top of my comment is that no one at Tesla is a slave to Elon, which is what the person I replied to said and for some distorted reason you reiterated. If we look at the Tesla trend on glassdoor we can see that it's gone down since Elon isn't the idol to the left he once was. How many people do you think are skewing it for partisan reasons?

 

[Ghost Ryder]

Really? A quick search says otherwise

https://www.glassdoor.com/Compare/Ford-Motor-Company-vs-Tesla-EI_IE263-E43129.htm#:~:text=449 Salaries-,Employee Ratings,1 area: Positive Business Outlook.
https://www.indeed.com/companies/co...ny-vs-Tesla-fcdbee5f182b50a7-f6964b349e98c35e

I'm sure you'd like to be a slave to Elon

Slave? Last I checked, people have choices. They can quit at any time. Yet people continue to apply to work at Tesla. Their company is doing well, and they're lowering the prices of their cars. That's unheard of in the auto industry. Isn't that what we all want? I don't understand why people root against someone who has unarguably improved the lives of so many people.

 

[MACH-E Mountain Way]

Like he said, no one here was praising robots.

It’s more of a warning.

If you demand pay too high, you’ll get replaced by a robot.

That said, robots doing jobs more efficiently than people can is actually good for people. It’s macroeconomics 101. People can then get other jobs (like building and repairing robots). But the important part is being more efficient. More efficiency means more stuff gets built/done and we all end up with more stuff.

There was a time where our job options were hunting and gathering. Technology made our lives better.

Sucks for the individuals who lose their jobs to robots at first though.

I always loved these posters! ?

I still don't really see a response that addresses my real question, so I will reiterate...

Who exactly is the market for all of this robot made shit? Are there a bunch of hamburger eating robots out there that I have somehow missed?

And no I didn't say anything about "championing" or "praising" robots...I said that some folks seem to be 'cheering' for it. While some may not be on the cheerleading squad they are apparently in the pep club. I count myself as firmly in the human camp. I actually want us to succeed and thrive. We all do better when we all do better.

And as I also said, I believe robots are indeed coming (one is cleaning my floors as I type). I just want to know what all of these folks think is the answer to that future? As someone else posted earlier, there were lots of articles in the 60s about how technological advancements will free up so much time we will all be living more leisurely lives as a result. I thought the idea would be that we would be free to be more "human" and not be defined by the work we do necessarily. That hasn't really been the case yet although I do enjoy not sweeping and vacuuming as much for sure. The point is as this future comes at us at an ever increasing pace it seems, we are going to have to have conversations about things like UBI and yes even a 32 hour work week.

Unless of course there is this vast untapped market of robots that will buy all of the robot made wares...then humanity is truly screwed and Skynet wins after all.

Game Over Man!

And lastly for all of the talk about luck not having anything to do with ones lot in life. if you think that all that is needed to succeed is hard work, I will leave you with this...I used to work with a guy who owned a machine shop and he once said to me, "If hard work makes you rich, then ditch diggers would be the richest people on earth" - said in a thick Austrian accent. I think we all know that there is some element of luck with many 'successful' self-made men (i.e. having a father that owned an emerald mine comes to mind).

 

[thekat03]

I still don't really see a response that addresses my real question, so I will reiterate...

Who exactly is the market for all of this robot made shit? Are there a bunch of hamburger eating robots out there that I have somehow missed?

I guess I am a little confused by your question. People will buy stuff. Sometimes it is made by robots. If it's stuff people want or need, they will buy it, regardless of who or what makes it.

 

[MACH-E Mountain Way]

I guess I am a little confused by your question. People will buy stuff. Sometimes it is made by robots. If it's stuff people want or need, they will buy it, regardless of who or what makes it.

Not if they don't have decent jobs that pay a living wage they won't. So I guess I assumed that people understood I'm talking about this imagined future where all of these ungrateful and meddlesome humans demanded a modicum of dignity and higher wages and have at long last been replaced by the quiet and docile robots.

I guess to put it another way, what work will humans be doing to get paid in this world where robots are doing many if not most of the tasks once done by humans? There will only be so many robot repair (or even CEO) positions available I'm guessing and even those jobs will be replaced by robots eventually too.

In other words how will the humans afford the robot made hamburgers, blue jeans, shoes, automobiles, medicine, etc?

 

[DevSecOps]

Who exactly is the market for all of this robot made shit? Are there a bunch of hamburger eating robots out there that I have somehow missed?

Over 1 million robots are used in auto factories. Do you buy vehicles?

And no I didn't say anything about "championing" or "praising" robots...I said that some folks seem to be 'cheering' for it. While some may not be on the cheerleading squad they are apparently in the pep club. I count myself as firmly in the human camp. I actually want us to succeed and thrive. We all do better when we all do better.

Yeah and no one is saying we want robots. Literally, no one. Therefore we are not cheer leading, championing or praising.

The point is as this future comes at us at an ever increasing pace it seems, we are going to have to have conversations about things like UBI and yes even a 32 hour work week.

So you don't want robots, but you want UBI? That's an oxymoron. Paying people to do nothing and incentivizing laziness will only result in the death of the USA as we know it and more robots.

I used to work with a guy who owned a machine shop and he once said to me, "If hard work makes you rich, then ditch diggers would be the richest people on earth" - said in a thick Austrian accent.

Ditch diggers, who we normally call laborers, are typically the very bottom of the ladder. In construction they are below journeyman and foreman. Someone who performs "ditch digging" well would likely be promoted to journeyman and if they perform well there, a foreman. Foreman can often make over 100k in base salary with 200k in total comp. I think your Austrian co-worker was a bit ill informed and quoting some random person isn't exactly proof of anything.

I happen to know a once upon a time "ditch digger" who is now making 500k a year as a manager of a construction company. In fact, most all managers of construction companies that I know worked up from "ditch digging".

 

[dbsb3233]

In other words how will the humans afford the robot made hamburgers, blue jeans, shoes, automobiles, medicine, etc?

Where do you think the money supply is going? It's not just going to disappear into thin air. And it's not just gonna be held by a few uber rich people. Supply and demand will dictate the balance as it always done. If you don't have hardly any customers that can afford to buy a widget, they'll have to stop making widgets. Every product requires a market or else it will fail.

Automation is nothing new. Mankind has been developing more and better tools to produce more and make tasks easier since the days of the caveman. Industry is probably 10x more automated now than it was a century ago. Does that mean nobody has a job anyone? Of course not. It means life improves for mankind because we're able to devote more time to innovation, and to new things we never even thought of before.

 

[DennisD]

Where do you think the money supply is going? It's not just going to disappear into thin air. And it's not just gonna be held by a few uber rich people. Supply and demand will dictate the balance as it always done. If you don't have hardly any customers that can afford to buy a widget, they'll have to stop making widgets. Every product requires a market or else it will fail.

Automation is nothing new. Mankind has been developing more and better tools to produce more and make tasks easier since the days of the caveman. Industry is probably 10x more automated now than it was a century ago. Does that mean nobody has a job anyone? Of course not. It means life improves for mankind because we're able to devote more time to innovation, and to new things we never even thought of before.

An interesting observation.

When growing up on the Farm back in the 60's, 70's and early 80's, I noticed (due to larger equipment etc.) that as jobs were replaced by the larger machines, the Farmers were taking on more land thus leaving many old farmhouses vacant and the small towns were drying up as well. In other words, rural America was getting much smaller in population.

Fast forward to the pandemic, many of the "city" jobs were allowing people to work remotely. Due to that, the cost of living along with the vast beauty of the surrounding country side has been attracting many "city" dwellers and the rural areas are seeing a comeback.

So in short, new technology taketh away and new technology giveth.

Many times, the automated jobs basically see a shift in jobs rather than a replacement more times than not. Ai is altogether different though. That may just upset the balance.

Stay tuned...............................

 

[Mach1E]

Not if they don't have decent jobs that pay a living wage they won't. So I guess I assumed that people understood I'm talking about this imagined future where all of these ungrateful and meddlesome humans demanded a modicum of dignity and higher wages and have at long last been replaced by the quiet and docile robots.

I guess to put it another way, what work will humans be doing to get paid in this world where robots are doing many if not most of the tasks once done by humans? There will only be so many robot repair (or even CEO) positions available I'm guessing and even those jobs will be replaced by robots eventually too.

In other words how will the humans afford the robot made hamburgers, blue jeans, shoes, automobiles, medicine, etc?

They get other jobs.

Just like we always have when technology makes a job obsolete.

And that’s a good thing.

Although if the unions have their way, they’d ban technology that replaces any human labor and force us to be less efficient and less competitive. Then the jobs will go back overseas to a factory where they welcome the fastest/cheapest way to do things. This is exactly what the recent writers strike did (demand that AI be restricted or banned).

Is that what you’re wanting?

Robots have been building cars (and other things) for decades. This is nothing new.

And no, I don’t think we are anywhere near (nor heading towards) a society where everything is done by robots or machines.

But do I mind if some people get replaced by AI or a robot? No, as long as I’m not one of those obsolete people of course! ?

FWIW, I do work in an industry where AI and bots are the competition. And know what I have to do? Get better at my job.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

I still don't really see a response that addresses my real question, so I will reiterate...

Who exactly is the market for all of this robot made shit? Are there a bunch of hamburger eating robots out there that I have somehow missed?

And no I didn't say anything about "championing" or "praising" robots...I said that some folks seem to be 'cheering' for it. While some may not be on the cheerleading squad they are apparently in the pep club. I count myself as firmly in the human camp. I actually want us to succeed and thrive. We all do better when we all do better.

And as I also said, I believe robots are indeed coming (one is cleaning my floors as I type). I just want to know what all of these folks think is the answer to that future? As someone else posted earlier, there were lots of articles in the 60s about how technological advancements will free up so much time we will all be living more leisurely lives as a result. I thought the idea would be that we would be free to be more "human" and not be defined by the work we do necessarily. That hasn't really been the case yet although I do enjoy not sweeping and vacuuming as much for sure. The point is as this future comes at us at an ever increasing pace it seems, we are going to have to have conversations about things like UBI and yes even a 32 hour work week.

Unless of course there is this vast untapped market of robots that will buy all of the robot made wares...then humanity is truly screwed and Skynet wins after all.

Game Over Man!

And lastly for all of the talk about luck not having anything to do with ones lot in life. if you think that all that is needed to succeed is hard work, I will leave you with this...I used to work with a guy who owned a machine shop and he once said to me, "If hard work makes you rich, then ditch diggers would be the richest people on earth" - said in a thick Austrian accent. I think we all know that there is some element of luck with many 'successful' self-made men (i.e. having a father that owned an emerald mine comes to mind).

As far as luck is concerned, you can't control it, so don't fret about it, the law of averages will always favor the hard worker vs. the lazy. We're talking on a macro level here. So you make the best of your situation.

Elon may have had some advantages, but I can guarantee that his success had more to do with his hard work and dedication, than the fact that his father had an emerald mine. There are countless stories of Scions who squandered their family fortune. Were they just unlucky? or were they lazy?

 

[Ghost Ryder]

What a lot of people who argue for vast increases in wages fail to consider is that some jobs are not worth Xdollars. The job has to bring in a net profit. And if it doesn't, then there is no point in keeping that job around. If the company loses enough money, it will either close down or ship the jobs overseas, or automate more. Increasing pay in any sector by 40% will hasten inflation. Soon, everyone will be making more, but have less buying power.

California just passed a min wage law for fast food workers. Min is $20/hour. I predict that there will be a lot more ordering Kiosk as well as another increase in prices. A "combo big mac meal" is already $12+. 3 years ago it was 7. Wonder how high it'll get to.

 

[DennisD]

As far as luck is concerned, you can't control it, so don't fret about it, the law of averages will always favor the hard worker vs. the lazy. We're talking on a macro level here. So you make the best of your situation.

Elon may have had some advantages, but I can guarantee that his success had more to do with his hard work and dedication, than the fact that his father had an emerald mine. There are countless stories of Scions who squandered their family fortune. Were they just unlucky? or were they lazy?

Here are the facts.

Elon Musk is the wealthiest person on the Planet.
Elon Musk is a hard worker.
Elon Musk is both lucky and good at what he does.

Personally, I can't stand him for many things he both says and does but the facts stated really can't be disputed.

To be the richest man on the Planet, I think everyone would agree he is one of the luckiest men on the face of this Earth.

Timing and Luck does not mean that you are not worthy of it or you didn't work for it. It simply means that things fell his way when he needed it most with his high risk endeavors. Things could have easily gone south for him. In fact, Tesla almost brought him down. He was near broke at one time after he became rich. To say luck was not involved is ignoring all of the hard working people that did actually go broke at one point of their life.

You could say the same thing about Michael Jordan. If he had not played basketball as a youth, chances are he would not be worth near the wealth that he has now. One could say (even though IMO he was the greatest player of all time), he was lucky to play the sport that he now is labeled as the greatest.

Imagine if he only played Baseball. You would not know his name.

EVERYONE is lucky once in a while throughout their lifetime. Some more than others.

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