EV6 Launch, Ionic 5 Drive, Polestar 2 Vs MME

[Trevor]

Was at launch of EV6 today.
Test drove an Ionic5 RWD last week.
Was on Polestar 2 launch last year.
Own First Edition MME.

The Ionic and EV6 both share the same platform and tech, but they wrap and present it all.very differently. The Ionic is bit like the economy version (well the base model is).

It had all the tech, but feels budget. Plastic feel to panels. Colour wasn't great. Inside controls in a cream, roofline in white. Just didn't hang together too well.

Lane control was less relaxing and predictive, but I Drive and option to use 4 settings for regen is great. Also love the fast charging and 3 pin power options, inside and out.

Seat control's are better than an MME and are very comfy. The top of the range will be superb. Poor show by Ford, although not too uncomfy.

The EV6 was a pre-production car. Battery not charged and no test drives (obviously). Shame. First impressions are great, plus nice reveal at the Kia dealership.

I turned up in my MME and parked in the Ford part of the Ford/King dealership to see a handover taking place of a white RWD MME, so wanderers over to congratulate the new family who were taking the keys to their new toy.

The salesperson asked if I was seeing the correct mileage, to which I replied 'Not yet'. I also advised that I love OFD and how to use it.

Anyway, back to the EV6. Looks great. Quick talk/intro, then a chance to dive inside. Looks and feels as good, if not better, than the MME. Lower headline. Bigger central unit, but we'll laid out and easy to use.

Same controls as Ionic, but in a black console that looks classy and well thought through. Different switchgear and also using a wheel to select gears, rather then a stalk on the steering column in the Ionic5.

Rear entry is a little more awkward due to low roofline and solid roof could be more claustrophobic, but it has worked on many millions of cars for years, so I am sure it will be OK.

Charger is at the right rear, and has the option to charge other EV's or run a TV, etc. Need to be careful how you close it, otherwise it could break (their words, not mine).

One other strong point is it's towing capacity. Very impressive and still expect a 260 mile range, from this newly WLTL tested car that promises 326 miles.

Colour wasn't my choice, but many options and they all look good. The line up is looking strong and they have a good pedigree and rra k record so far.

Lookout Ford.

Finally, the Polestar 2. I drove this last year at the Launch in the UK. Car was good, but very Volvo. Didn't excite, but wasn't bad. Centre console was big, but not dissimilar to the MME. The acceleration, likewise, was good, but not thrilling. Didn't seem to push you back in the seat like the MME. The EV6 and MME GT lines should both over deliver on this front.

The advantage with all of these models over a Tesla S or 3 is that they are hatchbacks. With 4 dogs this matters to me. The Polestar is possibly the best option here, marginally ahead of the MME. The Ionic felt big and the EV6 is deep ( and bigger), but I'm happy with the height and depth of the MME with the lower level in use.

The Frank on the EV6 is tiny. The Ionic 5 is better, but the MME is better, although remote opening will be a god send when it finally arrives.

So, to sum it up, they are all compromises. Pick the one that fits you best and be happy. I had s spirited drive there and got 4.4 miles per Kwh ( best so far). Threw it down some well known country lanes and it was excellent.

I got back into it to drive home and liked the more upright position and felt happy with my choice. The wife loves It, so despite some teething issues, which I am guessing some of the others may also have, I am glad I have Mach E and am looking forward to many years of comfy and occasionally quick driving.

 

[Pushrods&Capacitors]

Interesting observations, thanks!

I think the EV6 looks great, and, if you’re a car lover like me you’ll see some definite Lancia Delta Integrale influence in the Ionic5’s front end and rear hatch.

As far as the Polestar 2 goes, well, I drove one here in Austin and the center console is so monstrous and poorly shaped that my right leg was constantly bumping/rubbing it. Very bad design. Dealbreaker bad. Interior materials weren’t up to usual Volvo quality IMO. Exterior looks great though. Additionally, the US spec. Polestar 2 is rated at 400+ HP and is a good margin quicker than a MME 4X at 4.1 to 60mph and 12.7-12.8@108mph in the 1/4. But, that range is still a bit lacking. The new single motor Polestar 2s will probably be slower than equivalent MMEs .

 

[silverelan]

The ace card for the Ioniq 5/EV6 siblings is the 800v charging. Percentage wise, it's a big difference. In terms of actual time, we're talking 15-20 minutes per charging stop.

A single charging stop to add 100 miles of range on both cars the time difference is fairly minimal. However, once you add charging stops# 2, 3, 4, etc the Korean 800v charging crushes the MME's curve. The added advantage for the Koreans is that going to 80% or more enables skip-stop traveling so you can drive past the first available DCFC station.

Here are a few time points of an Ioniq 5 vs. Mach-E taken from Bjørn Nyland vids (Kyle Connor vids of EV6 and MME match Bjørn's results).

10% to 80%
Ioniq 5/EV6 - 18 minutes
MME ER - 41 minutes

EV6 goes 0% to 97% in 41 minutes

Time to add 50kWh
Ioniq 5/EV6 - 16 minutes
MME ER - 31 minutes

 

[TruWrecks]

@Ford Motor Company Are you listening? Let the Mach-E charge from 0-100 based on thermal management, not some arbitrary time based curve that someone dreamed up over coffee or beer!

 

[krafty81]

That EV6 is sharp!

 

[ElectrifyCLT]

The ace card for the Ioniq 5/EV6 siblings is the 800v charging. Percentage wise, it's a big difference. In terms of actual time, we're talking 15-20 minutes per charging stop.

A single charging stop to add 100 miles of range on both cars the time difference is fairly minimal. However, once you add charging stops# 2, 3, 4, etc the Korean 800v charging crushes the MME's curve. The added advantage for the Koreans is that going to 80% or more enables skip-stop traveling so you can drive past the first available DCFC station.

Here are a few time points of an Ioniq 5 vs. Mach-E taken from Bjørn Nyland vids (Kyle Connor vids of EV6 and MME match Bjørn's results).

10% to 80%
Ioniq 5/EV6 - 18 minutes
MME ER - 41 minutes

EV6 goes 0% to 97% in 41 minutes

Time to add 50kWh
Ioniq 5/EV6 - 16 minutes
MME ER - 31 minutes

Man oh man…. That’s a massive, huge difference. Crazy. Here’s to hoping that the curve can at least be improved via software. Obviously we’re not going to get close to 800V architecture, but we need to be as good if not better than ID4. We have so much buffer on the high and low end that they should be able to be more aggressive with the pack.

 

[buzznwood]

Man oh man…. That’s a massive, huge difference. Crazy. Here’s to hoping that the curve can at least be improved via software. Obviously we’re not going to get close to 800V architecture, but we need to be as good if not better than ID4. We have so much buffer on the high and low end that they should be able to be more aggressive with the pack.

With the giant buffer the mach-e has it should be trying to benchmark the audi e-tron, which can typically maintain a constant 150kw from 0-80% with the side benefit of it not really mattering at what point along that range you plug in either, plug in a 5% or 65% you still get that 150kw to 80%.

 

[silverelan]

With the giant buffer the mach-e has it should be trying to benchmark the audi e-tron, which can typically maintain a constant 150kw from 0-80% with the side benefit of it not really mattering at what point along that range you plug in either, plug in a 5% or 65% you still get that 150kw to 80%.

As @ElectrifyCLT said, you'd hope it'd match ID4. The crazy thing is, VW is getting ready to bump the charge speed up from 125kW to 170-175kW.

 

[ElectrifyCLT]

With the giant buffer the mach-e has it should be trying to benchmark the audi e-tron, which can typically maintain a constant 150kw from 0-80% with the side benefit of it not really mattering at what point along that range you plug in either, plug in a 5% or 65% you still get that 150kw to 80%.

I don’t think the giant buffer is as impactful as the 800V architecture, which the E-Tron is also built on.

ID4 is still 400V with meaningful buffers and likely a more realistic target. Anything that compares 800V to 400V is going to be tough as there‘s an inherent benefit to being able to take more current. The buffers aren’t as big as on the Mach E, 82KWH/77KWH usable for the ID4 vs. 99/88 for the Mach E.

 

[ElectrifyCLT]

As @ElectrifyCLT said, you'd hope it'd match ID4. The crazy thing is, VW is getting ready to bump the charge speed up from 125kW to 170-175kW.

Source on this? Curious to read more. Could be a good indicator on if/how Ford could unlock more via software (If that’s the route VW is going).

As Out of Spec motoring has showed, it’s really less about the peak charging rate supported, but what the pack can sustain over a longer period of time. IIRC, Out of Spec got the ID4 to maintain ~110KWH up into the 80% range. So while going up to 170-175KWH may be impressive, if it doesn’t change the rest of the curve and can only sustain that higher rate for a few moments, it may only save a few minutes at the charger.

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

10% to 80%
Ioniq 5/EV6 - 18 minutes

EV6 goes 0% to 97% in 41 minutes

ok, so, 70% in 18 minutes, but the remaining 30% in 23 minutes? huh. almost like there's a charging curve. but that's impossible because all the experts on here insisting only the Mach-E has a curve, and everyone else goes full blast from 0% to 100%.

 

[silverelan]

Source on this? Curious to read more. Could be a good indicator on if/how Ford could unlock more via software (If that’s the route VW is going).

As Out of Spec motoring has showed, it’s really less about the peak charging rate supported, but what the pack can sustain over a longer period of time. IIRC, Out of Spec got the ID4 to maintain ~110KWH up into the 80% range. So while going up to 170-175KWH may be impressive, if it doesn’t change the rest of the curve and can only sustain that higher rate for a few moments, it may only save a few minutes at the charger.

Here's the latest story on ID4 getting a bump.


Note that ID3 has already seen an increase from 100kW to 120kW on the midsize pack. In Bjorn's test, the difference was really seen on the lower end to enable quicker charger hopping. The 10-80% improvement wasn't that big.

In his EV6 review, Kyle Connor also mentions the expected ID4 power increase.

 

[silverelan]

ok, so, 70% in 18 minutes, but the remaining 30% in 23 minutes? huh. almost like there's a charging curve. but that's impossible because all the experts on here insisting only the Mach-E has a curve, and everyone else goes full blast from 0% to 100%.

I don't understand what you're saying. There's clearly a difference between the 800v Koreans and the MME's charging times. I illustrated this as simply as I could so your comment is confusing. Could you please explain further on what you mean? Thanks!

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

I don't understand what you're saying. There's clearly a difference between the 800v Koreans and the MME's charging times. I illustrated this as simply as I could so your comment is confusing. Could you please explain further on what you mean? Thanks!

I was being a bit sarcastic. Of course there is a difference. But there has been so much whining and complaining about the 80% drop in the Mach-E and yet no complaints about the obvious drop here. There's literally a post earlier in this thread complaining about it and implying the Mach-E shouldn't have any curve at all.

Honestly all the constant bitching gets old, especially when there's obvious hypocracy.

 

[buzznwood]

I don’t think the giant buffer is as impactful as the 800V architecture, which the E-Tron is also built on.

Only the e-tron GT is 800v as it shares the taycan platform the suv e-tron which runs the constant 150kw is 400v. With 400v you could go tesla style and cram a load in when charge in the pack is low and rapidly taper down or just run a consistent rate up to 80%.

Sure the mach-e will never match a 800v system but it should be able to do a lot better than is currently is and run @ 150kw for a lot longer than it currently does and take advantage of the big buffer, otherwise just leave it as is and reduce the buffer size to add more range.

Ford for what ever reason are being ultra conservative and still have not fully let go the shackles of compliance mentality where its all about charge at home and use it for local trips.

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