EV's really do save money...

[dbsb3233]

The savings do add up over the life of the vehicle in reduced fueling costs and heavily reduced maintenance costs.

I suppose it depends a lot on the vehicle, and how it's driven. Our Escapes have needed almost no maintenance other than oil changes (not counting tires that BEVs need too). I don't think we've spent $1000 between the two of them.

I don't think they count car loan interest either. An extra $15k can add quite a bit of interest over 60 months.

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[zhackwyatt]

I suppose it depends a lot on the vehicle, and how it's driven. Our Escapes have needed almost no maintenance other than oil changes (not counting tires that BEVs need too). I don't think we've spent $1000 between the two of them.

I don't think they count car loan interest either. An extra $15k can add quite a bit of interest over 60 months.

Exactly. I tried to do a cost comparison between a Mach-E and an Escape Hybrid (as I would configure both), and because the Mach-E is more expensive, the taxes, interest, and insurance are also more expensive. The Mach-E comes out more expensive overall.

If I compared against an ICE of the same price, no question about it, the Mach-E would be cheaper. If I compared it against an ICE ~25mpg and ~$30K, the mach-e is cheaper.

Point being, too many variables to say a Mach-E will be cheaper overall unless you do the calculations.

 

[dbsb3233]

Exactly. I tried to do a cost comparison between a Mach-E and an Escape Hybrid (as I would configure both), and because the Mach-E is more expensive, the taxes, interest, and insurance are also more expensive. The Mach-E comes out more expensive overall.

If I compared against an ICE of the same price, no question about it, the Mach-E would be cheaper. If I compared it against an ICE ~25mpg and ~$30K, the mach-e is cheaper.

Point being, too many variables to say a Mach-E will be cheaper overall unless you do the calculations.

I struggle to even get the MME to come out cheaper than the ICE, but it depends a lot on the assumptions.

A new loaded Escape AWD Titanium can be had for about $35k. With 8% sales tax, figure $37,800.

A Premium AWD ER MME is $55,800 + 8% tax - $7500 tax credit = $51,576. $13,776 more. And more if financed (extra interest). Probably higher insurance from higher purchase price too.

On 150k miles (typical vehicle life) @ 26 MPG = 5770 gallons @ $2.50/gal = $14,423. I figure home charging works out to about 1/3rd the cost of gas, so ~10k more for ICE on fuel cost. Brings it up to $47,800.

Maintenance is the wildcard. Routine oil/filer service every 5000 miles would be 30 @ maybe $50 = $1500. A few $hundred more for a brake service. Tires and 12V battery replacement should be a wash. Odds of a big mechanical repair are higher on the ICE, but BEVs have mechanical too. But a clunker could cost a lot more.

Then there's the time-value of money. For most people, the extra money upfront in purchase price is more costly than a maintenance bill 9 years later when the car is paid off.

Anyway, lots of variables. For my purposes, the MME will still cost more than the ICE. But for others (especially heavy users that are hard on a car), it could be the other way around.

 

[zhackwyatt]

I struggle to even get the MME to come out cheaper than the ICE, but it depends a lot on the assumptions.

A new loaded Escape AWD Titanium can be had for about $35k. With 8% sales tax, figure $37,800.

A Premium AWD ER MME is $55,800 + 8% tax - $7500 tax credit = $51,576. $13,776 more. And more if financed (extra interest). Probably higher insurance from higher purchase price too.

On 150k miles (typical vehicle life) @ 26 MPG = 5770 gallons @ $2.50/gal = $14,423. I figure home charging works out to about 1/3rd the cost of gas, so ~10k more for ICE on fuel cost. Brings it up to $47,800.

Maintenance is the wildcard. Routine oil/filer service every 5000 miles would be 30 @ maybe $50 = $1500. A few $hundred more for a brake service. Tires and 12V battery replacement should be a wash. Odds of a big mechanical repair are higher on the ICE, but BEVs have mechanical too. But a clunker could cost a lot more.

Then there's the time-value of money. For most people, the extra money upfront in purchase price is more costly than a maintenance bill 9 years later when the car is paid off.

Anyway, lots of variables. For my purposes, the MME will still cost more than the ICE. But for others (especially heavy users that are hard on a car), it could be the other way around.

IN AZ, it helps that BEV get a registration break, about $120 for 5 years, whereas the escape would be $3300 for 5 years. I also included installation of a home charger in the calculations too which hurts the BEV.

For time/value there is the benefit of not having to go to a gas station. In AZ, we also get HOV lane access.

 

[dbsb3233]

IN AZ, it helps that BEV get a registration break, about $120 for 5 years, whereas the escape would be $3300 for 5 years. I also included installation of a home charger in the calculations too which hurts the BEV.

For time/value there is the benefit of not having to go to a gas station. In AZ, we also get HOV lane access.

Yep, lots of variables. In my state there's an extra EV fee on top of regular registration fees (to offset no gas tax paid). But we also get a sizeable tax credit on the purchase ($4000 in 2020). But most states don't get that. Some of have reported it actually costs more.

No going to a gas station is great perk, although not necessarily a $$ one. OTOH, that perk can be offset with much road-trip driving which is the opposite. Again, lots of factors that vary by situation.

 

[trutolife27]

The rest test will be the 10-year rule. If they can get the battery cost down to say 4,000 for the cost of the battery and labor to replace it, giving the EV another 10 years, so AKA 20 years total. That is where you will really see the gain in the cost of maintenance and repairs.

Heater core, fuel pumps, head gaskets, so on and so on parts and labor, transmission work is super costly.

I know most people don't keep a vehicle for 20 years but at that point, the savings could be a massive difference.

 

[dbsb3233]

I know most people don't keep a vehicle for 20 years but at that point, the savings could be a massive difference.

Another big wildcard is the future of AVs for autonomous taxi services. If they can perfect pod vehicles (private AV shuttles that can travel door-to-door on-demand cheaply), private car ownership could drop by 50%. What's left could be mostly stuff-carriers (trucks, vans, etc) rather than people-movers.

 

[timbop]

A lot depends on the incentives for your state. Here in Jersey the government is trying to reduce the air pollution, so there are excellent incentives. Maybe not everyone knows, but the air in NJ can be thick at times. So, there is a $5000 rebate for BEVs, no sales tax (6.875%) on them, and of course the gasoline taxes don't apply. On top of that there is a program for solar panels that cuts the cost almost in half.

So, even though electricity is $.20/kwh when I get my solar panels put on I'll end up paying $.10/kwh in addition to the combined $15,000 savings on the car. So yes, for me the MME will be cheaper than an ICE out of the gate.

I know that there are those who feel governments shouldn't intrude in a free market, but in my opinion we are currently at war with those whose only concern is accumulating more ludicrous levels of wealth at the expense of the other 7.5 billion people on the planet. In times of war governments have the obligation to step in.

 

[dbsb3233]

I'll end up paying $.10/kwh

That's my regular incremental rate here. $0.0995.

Although they also add a demand charge for the highest 15 minutes of the month.

 

[JellyBelly]

yeah - in my case I dont think Mach E will be saving $$ over all - in CA not much state benefits above and beyond federal and I have solar on my house , and still I think Mach E will be more in total cost than a "normal " ICE. I found Mach E comparable to expensive SUV options in similar price category. I was about to get the BMW X3 PHEV in May - had a special order coming to around 58K hoping for a 30 Miles capability on pure battery. After realizing that the battery only gives 20 miles at best, canceled the order. For me , personally teh Mach E is palatable when compared to Audi Q5 or X3 etc,. But compared to my CX5 or CRV, however I look at it it will cost more. I usually keep my cars 150K miles or close to 7-8 years.

 

[timbop]

That's my regular incremental rate here. $0.0995.

Although they also add a demand charge for the highest 15 minutes of the month.

That's good and bad, depending on your point of view. PSE&G is so expensive because a large portion of their electricity comes from nuclear - no CO2 but certainly not without its own potential environmental hazards. I have no idea what the mix of generation is where you live, but I would guess that fossil fuels play a large part.

It is easy to dismiss the cost of the environmental impact to future generations, but it ain't gonna be cheap

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