EV's really do save money...

[Woeo]

While I agree with that sentiment, I took this to be because they are looking to help people make a buying choice today, which you can't do (readily) with models that are no longer being manufactured. Whatever is out there on lots is end-of-model leftovers.

At the risk of reinforcing my reputation as being difficult my point stands. If one were considering a PHEV on the basis of that article/report the FFE is available in decent supply in this area. More than 100 units within 100 miles of me. 25 within 20 miles.

And one might use the history of generally lower maintenance costs across PHEVs models to choose one from another brand.

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[GoGoGadgetMachE]

At the risk of reinforcing my reputation as being difficult my point stands. If one were considering a PHEV on the basis of that article/report the FFE is available in decent supply in this area. More than 100 units within 100 miles of me. 25 within 20 miles.

And one might use the history of generally lower maintenance costs across PHEVs models to choose one from another brand.

Your point may stand, but it is a meaningless point. It is no longer a current model. There could be one jillion on a lot next to your house - that is completely irrelevant to the idea that they went with current models for the list.

 

[ChasingCoral]

from https://www.greencarreports.com/new...ven-stronger-for-suvs-and-pickups-study-finds

Ownership-cost advantages of EVs even stronger for SUVs and pickups, study finds

STEPHEN EDELSTEIN OCTOBER 9, 2020


Electric cars offer lower ownership costs than internal-combustion vehicles that can "more than make up for an EV's higher purchase price", according to a new Consumer Reports study.
The ownership-cost advantage is particularly strong against the SUVs and pickup trucks American buyers are increasingly flocking to over traditional sedans.

When comparing vehicles of similar size, an electric car can cost 10% to 40% more than a similar gasoline model, according to the study. But most owners will save $6,000 to $10,000 in running costs over the life of the car (measured as 200,000 miles), the study found.

For lower-priced models, ownership-cost savings usually exceed the higher purchase price of an EV, according to the study. As one example, a Chevrolet Bolt EV costs $8,000 more than a Hyundai Elantra GT when new, Consumer Reports noted, but the Bolt EV costs $15,000 less to operate over a 200,000-mile lifetime.

Ownership-cost advantages grow with vehicle size and length of ownership, according to the study. Car owners can save an average of $800 in fuel costs in the first year, but pickup-truck owners—for the upcoming GMC Hummer EV SUT, for instance—could save $1,300 in the same period, with SUV cost savings falling in between.

After seven years of ownership, an electric car will save its owner $4,700, but an electric pickup truck will save its owner almost $9,000, the study predicted. Over the lifetime of a vehicle, predicted savings were $9,000 for cars and $15,000 for trucks.


Discounted first-owner fuel costs for ICE and BEV (from Consumer Reports study)

Granted, there are no electric pickup trucks currently on sale. But Rivian, Tesla, Ford, and General Motors all plan to launch electric trucks in the near term.

A Consumer Reports whitepaper released last month also found that electric cars cost less to maintain and repair than internal-combustion vehicles—by an average of 50%, in fact.

This research echoes some of the findings that AAA has noted—although costs will vary widely between models.

However, some studies have pointed out that service bills might be higher for EVs, perhaps part of a strategy for dealerships to make up for their less-frequent service visits.

Automakers are touting potentially-lower ownership costs, at any rate. Ford has made that part of the sales pitch for its upcoming F-150 Electric pickup, while Volkswagen has said ownership costs for the European-market ID.3 hatchback will be lower than for comparable gasoline cars.

But steeper depreciation remains a serious issue for all EVs—other than those from Tesla.

 

[MailGuy]

The savings do add up over the life of the vehicle in reduced fueling costs and heavily reduced maintenance costs.

After driving full hybrids for 10 years, I never understood why Toyota never made that a selling point. A 12 year old Camry at 235,000 miles with factory disc pads; unthinkable with a traditional ICE. Even my lead footed son that drives it now hasn’t worn them out yet. My first full hybrid cemented that electric is the future and the only path forward for me. I have never felt that PHEV’s make any sense.

 

[dbsb3233]

When comparing vehicles of similar size, an electric car can cost 10% to 40% more than a similar gasoline model, according to the study.

I wonder what models they're comparing that only show a 10% purchase price increase for the BEV?? Unless they're including hybrids too.

 

[trutolife27]

Toyota is riding the Camry and Lexus ice as far as they can. Yes, they are paying the price now. Sales are way down with Toyota.


Toyota's downward slide in sales continues as the company announced a de-growth of 41 per cent in January 2020. As far as domestic sales go, the company sold a total of 5,804 vehicles to its dealers (wholesales) in the month of January 2020 which is a drop of 48 per cent in sales compared to the same period last year.


Toyota (TM) expects profits this year to plunge nearly 80% as the coronavirus pandemic slams global car sales.
The Japanese automaker, one of the world's largest, said Tuesday that it expects operating profit to reach just 500 billion yen ($4.7 billion) this fiscal year. That would be the smallest profit for Toyota in nine years. For the year ended March 31, the company posted profit of 2.4 trillion yen ($22.3 billion), slightly weaker than it estimated in February.

 

[SnBGC]

IN AZ, it helps that BEV get a registration break, about $120 for 5 years, whereas the escape would be $3300 for 5 years. I also included installation of a home charger in the calculations too which hurts the BEV.

For time/value there is the benefit of not having to go to a gas station. In AZ, we also get HOV lane access.

Good point. Switching from an F250 to a Focus Electric as a daily driver put money in my pocket from day 1. I put zero down and the monthly payment on the FFE is about $65/ month less than I was paying for diesel on average. Then cost avoidance for oil changes etc was a bonus.

But......
Getting back an hour of my life per day because I get to use the HOV lane is priceless!

Registration savings is another plus here in AZ. In the first year, registration for the MME will be $1000 less than a similar priced F150. In 6 years it ends up being just over $4000 in cost avoidance.

 

[MailGuy]

Toyota is riding the Camry and Lexus ice as far as they can. Yes, they are paying the price now. Sales are way down with Toyota.


Toyota's downward slide in sales continues as the company announced a de-growth of 41 per cent in January 2020. As far as domestic sales go, the company sold a total of 5,804 vehicles to its dealers (wholesales) in the month of January 2020 which is a drop of 48 per cent in sales compared to the same period last year.


Toyota (TM) expects profits this year to plunge nearly 80% as the coronavirus pandemic slams global car sales.
The Japanese automaker, one of the world's largest, said Tuesday that it expects operating profit to reach just 500 billion yen ($4.7 billion) this fiscal year. That would be the smallest profit for Toyota in nine years. For the year ended March 31, the company posted profit of 2.4 trillion yen ($22.3 billion), slightly weaker than it estimated in February.

Yep! I have been a big Toyota fan for a very long time. Unless they change course (Hydrogen? Please, that’s further off than charging infra and not cost effective to refine), I have bought my last one. Which is too bad. They last forever if maintained properly.

 

[dbsb3233]

Switching from an F250 to a Focus Electric

Although, that kind of size downgrade would produce a big savings even it were an ICE Focus.

 

[mattbostonmache]

Toyota was the darling of the green environmentalist crowd for so long. They squandered that giant lead by not developing any BEV cars. It's really tragic.

-- current Toyota hybrid driver

 

[SnBGC]

Although, that kind of size downgrade would produce a big savings even it were an ICE Focus.

True....
Was a tough step to make. Worked out so far though. Ready for the MME and then an electric truck when available. That would complete me.

 

[MailGuy]

The car you “want” costs what it does. Anybody playing the pre-order game knows that and so do the manufacturers. Once you’re past, that ongoing costs are not comparable. Not spending my weekends in a dealer doing maintenance, priceless!!

 

[ChasingCoral]

Toyota was the darling of the green environmentalist crowd for so long. They squandered that giant lead by not developing any BEV cars. It's really tragic.

-- current Toyota hybrid driver

And their cred has suffered severely by siding with the Federal government against California.

 

[EVer]

from https://www.greencarreports.com/new...ven-stronger-for-suvs-and-pickups-study-finds

Ownership-cost advantages of EVs even stronger for SUVs and pickups, study finds

STEPHEN EDELSTEIN OCTOBER 9, 2020


Electric cars offer lower ownership costs than internal-combustion vehicles that can "more than make up for an EV's higher purchase price", according to a new Consumer Reports study.
The ownership-cost advantage is particularly strong against the SUVs and pickup trucks American buyers are increasingly flocking to over traditional sedans.

When comparing vehicles of similar size, an electric car can cost 10% to 40% more than a similar gasoline model, according to the study. But most owners will save $6,000 to $10,000 in running costs over the life of the car (measured as 200,000 miles), the study found.

For lower-priced models, ownership-cost savings usually exceed the higher purchase price of an EV, according to the study. As one example, a Chevrolet Bolt EV costs $8,000 more than a Hyundai Elantra GT when new, Consumer Reports noted, but the Bolt EV costs $15,000 less to operate over a 200,000-mile lifetime.

Ownership-cost advantages grow with vehicle size and length of ownership, according to the study. Car owners can save an average of $800 in fuel costs in the first year, but pickup-truck owners—for the upcoming GMC Hummer EV SUT, for instance—could save $1,300 in the same period, with SUV cost savings falling in between.

After seven years of ownership, an electric car will save its owner $4,700, but an electric pickup truck will save its owner almost $9,000, the study predicted. Over the lifetime of a vehicle, predicted savings were $9,000 for cars and $15,000 for trucks.


Discounted first-owner fuel costs for ICE and BEV (from Consumer Reports study)
Granted, there are no electric pickup trucks currently on sale. But Rivian, Tesla, Ford, and General Motors all plan to launch electric trucks in the near term.

A Consumer Reports whitepaper released last month also found that electric cars cost less to maintain and repair than internal-combustion vehicles—by an average of 50%, in fact.

This research echoes some of the findings that AAA has noted—although costs will vary widely between models.

However, some studies have pointed out that service bills might be higher for EVs, perhaps part of a strategy for dealerships to make up for their less-frequent service visits.

Automakers are touting potentially-lower ownership costs, at any rate. Ford has made that part of the sales pitch for its upcoming F-150 Electric pickup, while Volkswagen has said ownership costs for the European-market ID.3 hatchback will be lower than for comparable gasoline cars.

But steeper depreciation remains a serious issue for all EVs—other than those from Tesla.

That's an interesting read, but I'm unclear how they are projecting Mach E total cost savings at $10000 less than Tesla Model Y total cost savings, when their backup data projects only $1100 in additional operating and maintenance costs for Mach E and has the Tesla costing significantly more to begin with.

I'm either suspicious or confused...

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