EVSE 48A (Hardwired) vs 40A (Plug In)

[DBC]

Ah, I see. So the “do not file this form unless you are claiming a credit on 9” is only relevant if line 10 is 0?

Alas. Not gonna fix it now.

Yes. Basically if you claim 100% business use you don't file the form unless you are claiming a business related credit (since the personal credit would be 30% of zero).

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[Blinkin]

I went with Grizzl-e because my garage already had a 60A circuit installed by a previous owner but with a 6-50 rather than 14-50 outlet (I suspect they were arc welding in there). That means the mobile charger won't work for me without modifying the outlet. Some of the other EVSEs I researched either don't have 6-50 compatibility or charged more for it, but Grizzl-e offers 6-50 plug at no extra cost, so it was an easy call for me.

As others have said, I also didn't want to spend extra on "connected" bells and whistles. The car will handle that independently. No reason to pay for a belt and suspenders.

 

[Basic Cable]

I have the charge point home flex hard wired on a 70A circuit. The reason being is that if there's an OTA that unleashes that 2 extra available amps (it can charge at max 50A), I've got it. It charges right now at 38MPH.

 

[Tampamike]

I decided on simple. I had an electrician install the NEMA 14-50 plug on the wall right next to the electrical panel in the garage. I use the included mobile charger. If I am going anywhere far, I plug it in the night before and it’s fully charged in the morning. I haven’t yet splurged for a cord hanger but probably will.

 

[dbsb3233]

As others have said, I also didn't want to spend extra on "connected" bells and whistles. The car will handle that independently. No reason to pay for a belt and suspenders.

Same here. The Grizzl-E is $300 less. Easy decision.

Only feature I wish it had was an external way to switch power levels, but that's no big deal. I took off the cover yesterday to lower the power level from 40A to 24A because (a) I really didn't need to charge that fast overnight, and (b) it'll save me money since my power company tacks on a Demand Charge. So a smaller power peak is cheaper. It was pretty easy to do, but it does take 10 minutes or so.

I can always move it back to 40A in a pinch if needed, but I don't envision ever needing it. Even in the very rare case I'd need to charge all the way from 20% to 100% overnight, it's easily done at 24A in 13 hours. All I have to do is override the delayed schedule and start charging when I get home the previous evening instead of the midnight schedule if I have to do that much of a charge and have it ready by 8am. Easy peasy. But in reality, I'll almost never run it down to 20% at home. Hell, I'm usually charging it from ~65% now, and it's at 90% in just a few hours.

A 48A charger on a 60A circuit install would be severe overkill. And more costly, creating higher demand charges.

 

[dbsb3233]

I decided on simple. I had an electrician install the NEMA 14-50 plug on the wall right next to the electrical panel in the garage. I use the included mobile charger. If I am going anywhere far, I plug it in the night before and it’s fully charged in the morning. I haven’t yet splurged for a cord hanger but probably will.

And hangers are cheap.

https://www.amazon.com/Zencar-Charg...ywords=evse+wall+hanger&qid=1615729085&sr=8-6

 

[Ponypower50]

I bought a Grizzle E and will run it at 32amps, that works for me. I didn't need a smart charger as my mach e can do everything I need.

 

[SteveJo]

...you cannot use regular #6 Romex. The answer is #6 THHN either separate wires in a conduit, or the metal clad #6 THHN which looks like the old BX cables (spiral aluminum cladding).

I used a 6/2 NM-B "Romex" for my indoor 50' 60 amp circuit to draw 48 continuous. Cable rated at 90°C (ampacity=75). Am I missing something?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NPV814B/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[TheVirtualTim]

While both my chargers are now installed, back in 2020 I didn't know when my chargers would arrive (I have both a Ford Connected Charge Station and a ChargePoint Home Flex).

I had my electrician install 6-gauge 4-conductor wire and install NEMA 14-50 outlets at the locations where the chargers would eventually be mounted.

I did have to use 50 amp breakers (to pass inspection). Once the permanent chargers arrived I removed the outlets and hard-wired the wall chargers and also swapped the 50 amp breakers for 60 amp breakers.

As for GFCI ... the Ford Connected Charger *and* the ChargePoint Home Flex both have internal GFCI ... which means they should have standard breakers ... not GFCI breakers.

I did ask my electrician about the need for GFCI if using the Ford Mobile (plug-in) charger. He said that would be required if mounted outside (the Ford Mobile Charger is weather-resistant to the extent that you can use it outside, in the rain, snow, etc. laying on the ground. But since my outlets are inside the inspector wont require GFCI. (I had already picked up the 50-amp GFCI breaker so he used it ... but I also picked up the 60-amp standard breaker for when the wall-mounted charger arrived). Standard breakers are cheap (e.g. $10-20). But GFCI breakers are expensive ($80-100).

Swapping a NEMA 14-50 outlet for a hard-wire and swapping the breaker are both actually extremely easy. This is trivial stuff for an electrician. My electrician offered to just swing by and do the swap whenever the charger arrived -- he wasn't even going to charge me for it.

I am comfortable enough working with electricity that I would have done the swap myself (I've replaced breakers and outlets). Kill the power. Use a tester to confirm the power is dead. If you aren't within visible distance of your service panel then make sure nobody messes with the panel (you don't want someone to come along and say "Hey, why is this breaker off?" ZAP! (Electricians have a cheap gadget called a "breaker lockout" that lets them lock the breaker in the off position so nobody can turn on a circuit while they are working on it.)

The wall chargers only use 3 of the 4 conductors in the wire. (They use the two legs of 240v power and the ground ... but not the Neutral). The Neutral is there because it is used in a NEMA 14-50 plug ... which can double as either a 240v or dual 120v receptacle. The wall-chargers don't use 120v power so they don't need or use the neutral conductor.

 

[Maquis]

I used a 6/2 NM-B "Romex" for my indoor 50' 60 amp circuit to draw 48 continuous. Cable rated at 90°C (ampacity=75). Am I missing something?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NPV814B/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

According to the NEC, NM-B (aka "Romex") is limited to the 60°C ampacity, which is 55 amps. This is in spite of the fact that the individual conductors have 90°C insulation.

Additionally, it's been mentioned in other threads, the idea that a device with its own GFCI being connected to a circuit that is already GFCI-protected will cause nuisance trips is an urban legend that won't die. From an Engineering point of view, there is no reason that GFCIs cannot coexist. It's possible that a device has other attributes that will cause leakage to ground that will trip a GFCI (such as some types of surge protection).

 

[SteveJo]

According to the NEC, NM-B (aka "Romex") is limited to the 60°C ampacity, which is 55 amps. This is in spite of the fact that the individual conductors have 90°C insulation. Fortunately, when the cable ampacity does not correspond to a standard breaker size, you are allowed to "round up" to the next size breaker - in this case, a 60 amp breaker.

Thanks again. I understand now. It seems to me that Southwire/Amazon should not emphasize

• Temperature Rating = 90°C

when that might be relevant only to someone removing the sheathing and using other type of approved conduit for the individual conductors. Stating the maximum breaker size would be much more useful to the average Joe, or Jane or Steve.

 

[jsteach]

This Amazon review sums it all up, with the Chargepoint 50 amp charger:
There is only one correct hard-wire configuration
By Donna on September 30, 2020 OK, so here's the deal about getting the full 50 advertised amps out of this charger. Yes, you cannot use a 240V wall-plug and it must be hard-wired. You must also buy the following:
1) Buy a 70 amp breaker or special order a 65A breaker. This is because circuit breakers are typically sized to be 1.25 times the full load of the circuit. In this case 50A * 1.25 = 62.5 So any breaker over 62.5 would be acceptable.
2) In order to get the full 50 amps the circuit must be hard-wired. This means that you must run the wire through metal conduit into either the back or bottom of the chargepoint charger. The punchout for the conduit is 3/4 inches in diameter. I'm not sure why this measurement isn't explained in the .pdf instructions or this information is made available online. If your conduit is 3/4 of an inch in diameter you are limited in terms of the maximum wire gauge that you can select. A wire fill chart indicates that you are allowed up to four conductors (wires) with a wire gauge of #6.
3) The terminals on the chargepoint will allow a maximum wire gauge of #6. I tried pushing #4 wire into the terminals and they do not fit. It would have been nice to have the option to install thicker wire for added safety and to compensate for voltage drop over long distances. I'd rather pay more for more expensive wire and to be safer, but the manufacturer decided to prevent us from doing so.
4) The three terminals on the chargepoint only requires the two 120V leads and a ground. There is no need for a neutral wire. Again, why isn't this explained ahead of time? It's almost as if they are hiding information from us to force us to get a pro electrician to wire this thing up. Technically, the metal conduit functions as a ground, but I added a ground wire anyway.
5) You must buy #6 90 degree copper THHN wire for the two hot leads that enter the chargepoint. There is no other safe configuration possible with the limitations imposed by the conduit diameter, and the terminal gauge limitations. You cannot use NM-B wire (trade name: Romex) in metal conduit because the maximum ampacity allowed is 55A. You also cannot use 75 degree wire THW/THWN wire because the ampacity is 65 and it would not work with a 70A breaker. Only 90 degree THHN will work because it will allow up to 75 amps of current. This is more than our breaker so the breaker would trip before the wire overheated or melted. This is what you want for fire protection.
I'll save you the trouble of looking up all of the available permutations and lay it out for you in a nutshell.
1) Use 3/4 inch metal conduit
2) Install a 70A breaker
3) Use 90 degree THHN #6 copper wire see less

 

[Maquis]

This Amazon review sums it all up, with the Chargepoint 50 amp charger:
There is only one correct hard-wire configuration
By Donna on September 30, 2020 OK, so here's the deal about getting the full 50 advertised amps out of this charger. Yes, you cannot use a 240V wall-plug and it must be hard-wired. You must also buy the following:
1) Buy a 70 amp breaker or special order a 65A breaker. This is because circuit breakers are typically sized to be 1.25 times the full load of the circuit. In this case 50A * 1.25 = 62.5 So any breaker over 62.5 would be acceptable.
2) In order to get the full 50 amps the circuit must be hard-wired. This means that you must run the wire through metal conduit into either the back or bottom of the chargepoint charger. The punchout for the conduit is 3/4 inches in diameter. I'm not sure why this measurement isn't explained in the .pdf instructions or this information is made available online. If your conduit is 3/4 of an inch in diameter you are limited in terms of the maximum wire gauge that you can select. A wire fill chart indicates that you are allowed up to four conductors (wires) with a wire gauge of #6.
3) The terminals on the chargepoint will allow a maximum wire gauge of #6. I tried pushing #4 wire into the terminals and they do not fit. It would have been nice to have the option to install thicker wire for added safety and to compensate for voltage drop over long distances. I'd rather pay more for more expensive wire and to be safer, but the manufacturer decided to prevent us from doing so.
4) The three terminals on the chargepoint only requires the two 120V leads and a ground. There is no need for a neutral wire. Again, why isn't this explained ahead of time? It's almost as if they are hiding information from us to force us to get a pro electrician to wire this thing up. Technically, the metal conduit functions as a ground, but I added a ground wire anyway.
5) You must buy #6 90 degree copper THHN wire for the two hot leads that enter the chargepoint. There is no other safe configuration possible with the limitations imposed by the conduit diameter, and the terminal gauge limitations. You cannot use NM-B wire (trade name: Romex) in metal conduit because the maximum ampacity allowed is 55A. You also cannot use 75 degree wire THW/THWN wire because the ampacity is 65 and it would not work with a 70A breaker. Only 90 degree THHN will work because it will allow up to 75 amps of current. This is more than our breaker so the breaker would trip before the wire overheated or melted. This is what you want for fire protection.
I'll save you the trouble of looking up all of the available permutations and lay it out for you in a nutshell.
1) Use 3/4 inch metal conduit
2) Install a 70A breaker
3) Use 90 degree THHN #6 copper wire see less

That's a good write-up.
I'll add some info that may be helpful:

If voltage drop is a concern, you can run larger wire (in your example, #4) to a junction box near the EVSE and transition back to #6 for the short distance between the junction box and the EVSE. I agree that it's short-sighted for the manufacturer to not provide terminals that would allow up-sizing the conductors.

All THHN wire made today is dual-rated THHN/THWN-2 which is rated for 90°C. So unless you are using some old wire that was laying around somewhere, you should be fine.

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