Extended Range Battery Issues?

[Zoom-Zoom]

We took delivery of a Mach E Premium AWD with an extended range battery in November 2021. Here in Michigan, that meant highs in the upper 40s (although we had a number of days 55+) and lows in the high 30s. The car is kept in an unheated garage but the temperature is always warmer than outside. The charge is via a ChargePoint Home Flex.

Potential issue: When we picked up the car from the dealer it showed a range of 249 miles. However, once home a 100% charge is 198 to 200 miles. So, effectively we have lost almost a third of our battery. As a side note, while the dash display says 100% charged, the little battery icon shows 3/4 charged. Hmm...

As such, we took the vehicle back to the dealer where they were able to charge it to a high of 258 miles at 100% and a full battery icon. I assume that the service department has an ambient temperature in the high 60s but that's only a guess. The dealer states that they reprogrammed a couple of modules. They also question whether we're fully charging the vehicle. The FordPass app shows it at 100% in the morning.

I'm certainly no expert so I'm hoping to get some real-world feedback from you folks. While we expected to have reduced battery capacity in cooler temps, we really didn't imagine that it would be so dramatic. Or, is it dramatic? Maybe the loss of capacity is very much in-line with its design. Do we really have a "problem"? Your thoughts are much appreciated.

BTW, we just love our Mach E4! High tech, great looks and fun as h*** to drive!

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[mkhuffman]

We took delivery of a Mach E Premium AWD with an extended range battery in November 2021. Here in Michigan, that meant highs in the upper 40s (although we had a number of days 55+) and lows in the high 30s. The car is kept in an unheated garage but the temperature is always warmer than outside. The charge is via a ChargePoint Home Flex.

Potential issue: When we picked up the car from the dealer it showed a range of 249 miles. However, once home a 100% charge is 198 to 200 miles. So, effectively we have lost almost a third of our battery. As a side note, while the dash display says 100% charged, the little battery icon shows 3/4 charged. Hmm...

As such, we took the vehicle back to the dealer where they were able to charge it to a high of 258 miles at 100% and a full battery icon. I assume that the service department has an ambient temperature in the high 60s but that's only a guess. The dealer states that they reprogrammed a couple of modules. They also question whether we're fully charging the vehicle. The FordPass app shows it at 100% in the morning.

I'm certainly no expert so I'm hoping to get some real-world feedback from you folks. While we expected to have reduced battery capacity in cooler temps, we really didn't imagine that it would be so dramatic. Or, is it dramatic? Maybe the loss of capacity is very much in-line with its design. Do we really have a "problem"? Your thoughts are much appreciated.

BTW, we just love our Mach E4! High tech, great looks and fun as h*** to drive!

Click on the link below and read that post, all before and all after, and you will see you are not alone! Welcome to winter! ;-)
https://www.macheforum.com/site/posts/297977/

BTW - I love my MME also. This forum is great, and if you spend some time here, you will learn a ton about your car.

 

[Murse-In-Airy]

Unfortunately it is your expectations that are off. Not your battery. Optimal temp for the batteries is around 80°F. So even if you were at 50°, your car is burning electricity to warm the battery. That power is not going to turn your wheels so your range will drop. Real world expectations for winter in any EV are 30-40% range loss. At 10° F I’m getting a loss of about 38% over my summer time range.

 

[timbop]

You do lose range in cold weather, but not normally as much as the range ESTIMATOR tells you. FYI, it is referred to as the GOM (short for guess-o-meter).

1. Because the car doesn't know how far, how fast, in what conditions, etc it cannot be exact unless you actually put in a route right then - and even that is an approximation based on modeling. Thus the GOM is intentionally conservative as a "worst case" scenario to prevent people from getting stranded because the GOM said they can go farther than they actually can. It tends to be more conservative for this very reason; Ford has been underpromising and overdelivering on the Mach E. While that confounds newbies, doing a little research results in recognizing the issue and not being alarmed by it. By contrast Tesla overestimates their range on their GOM in all conditions; see plenty of actual "real world" driving tests by insideevs, alexonautos, edmunds, etc.
2. ICE engines are only 30% to 40% efficient, with the majority of energy being lost as heat. In winter that is an advantage because the heat that would otherwise be wasted is used to heat the cabin. BEV's are by contrast 95% efficient with minimal energy lost as heat. In the winter the car has to use extra energy to heat the cabin. That is why they tell you to use the seat and steering wheel heaters instead of heating the cabin if you can, because there is a lot less to heat up. The chemistry of Li-ion batteries is to blame as well: the liquid electrolyte loses viscosity (and thus potency) as temps drop well below freezing. At 30 to 40 degrees F it is minimal, but once you get down to around zero or below it becomes an issue. The 2 factors (no waste heat and chemistry) combine for some loss (10% to 20%) in range once it gets down to freezing or below. Therefore in really cold (-30 degree) temps like in Alaska the car's actual range does drop by 40% to 50%. In more reasonable climates (20 degree temps) effective range drops by 20% to 30%.
3. EVERY BEV experiences this issue right now; it is not unique to Ford. That is one of the reasons they are all investing so heavily in solid state batteries: "dry" batteries do not experience the issue with the electrolyte in cold weather.

 

[Nklem]

33-40% winter losses, period, especially if you drive like an ICE vehicle where waste heat is free.

Do not expect less that that but you may be surprised it can be less if managed right.

Make sure tires are properly inflated.

Heat set on desired temp and lock the Fan on 1,2 or 3. (1 preferred). I avoid Auto. Use heated seats and wheel as much as possible. Set climate as cool as you can be comfy or tolerate. 65-68 saves energy.

Dress warm and wear wool socks. Bring a blanket for passengers.

Precondition the car using departure times before leaving while plugged in.

Avoid the highway/highway speeds if you can and drive a little slower.

Using this planning we keep our winter losses at around 25%-29% even at 10-20F temperatures. I have not used a blanket yet. 189-205 miles with an extended AWD in Maine. 270 EPA rating.

I cannot wait to get over 300 miles this summer.

We learned all this from having a Hyundai. Ioniq EV for 2.5 years. Only a 100-110 mile Winter range and we routinely make 96-106 mile trips even in Winter with NO CHARGERS in between.

 

[RickMachE]

It's a shame that the OP's service department couldn't explain to them the effect of temperature on the vehicle.

At 100% this summer we showed a range of 277.

Several weeks ago we showed a range of 217.

Earlier this week when it hit 5 degrees, we showed a range of 163.

 

[Murse-In-Airy]

It's a shame that the OP's service department couldn't explain to them the effect of temperature on the vehicle.

Agreed. Collectively around here we’ve been a little harsh on some of the EV newbies. Yes, as a consumer we need to do our homework. But also the sales people and service departments are complete shite at helping with the learning curve, because they’re behind themselves. Most dealers don’t have a single employee that drives and EV, so nobody with any real experience.

 

[Nklem]

It's a shame that the OP's service department couldn't explain to them the effect of temperature on the vehicle.

At 100% this summer we showed a range of 277.

Several weeks ago we showed a range of 217.

Earlier this week when it hit 5 degrees, we showed a range of 163.

I bet they do not know either……..

I wish it was all out in the open and stated on a car window label, brochureor part of the EPA Fuel economy rating.

I know politically that would not be good as less people would buy EVs when they understand how they really work in cold climates.

it is NOT a Ford issue either. No manufacturers that I know publish this information openly. I somewhat knew but had limited info for my Hyundai and my first Cold weather trip was close (2 miles left), a Buddy bought a new Leaf in 2020 and was shocked when he could only go 90 miles in Winter.

there needs to be a clearing house of facts for all EV purchasers

I may approach my local adult Ed to teach an EV class. This information needs to get let out there.

I want to see the traffic on the web for buyers of the standard battery F150 Lighting when that 230 miles turns into 130-150 during their first Winter. Nows the time to spread the word.

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

I appreciate the responses and they seem to confirm that there's nothing wrong with our extended range battery, other than the cold weather.

I also have to assume that the reason the dealer can charge it to 250 miles versus our sub-200 is that the service department is heated, correct? We did heat our garage for a few days just to see if it made any difference, but it didn't. So, not sure what to make of that.

I also agree that our dealer and service department seem pretty clueless, given that you'd think they'd have been trained at some point. When we first got the car we had basic questions (why did it make "funny noises", etc.) about vehicle features and operation that we had to Google as our sales rep just didn't know.

All that said, cold weather performance concerns are why we went with the extended range battery and it was obviously a wise move on our part. Fortunately, a 150 to 200 mile range is not a problem with how we use the car. We didn't purchase it to save the planet or get good mileage and we certainly don't drive it that way! Zoom-Zoom...

 

[Murse-In-Airy]

I also have to assume that the reason the dealer can charge it to 250 miles versus our sub-200 is that the service department is heated, correct? We did heat our garage for a few days just to see if it made any difference, but it didn't. So, not sure what to make of that.

I’d say you are correct here. Most service bays are heated to the high 60’s to make it comfortable work weather and so the mechanics don’t freeze their hands on cold tools. Prolonged holding of your car in that temp will result in a higher GOM. Also, I wonder if they reset the driving history to make the car forget it was cold outside. I doubt you’re heating your garage to 70°, and your car was remembering it has been cold on its last drive. So you won’t get that GOM reading.

All that said, cold weather performance concerns are why we went with the extended range battery

We did the same. Luckily me prepurchase need to understand as much as possible had told me range would be down by at least 1/3rd in winter. So I compensated by buying the larger battery. Now I live comfortably between learning to manage charge, having a big battery, knowing it’s cold, driving more conservatively if I need to go further, and knowing where my charging stops are no matter which direction I’m headed. It was a bit of a learning curve, but far from insurmountable.

 

[RickMachE]

I also have to assume that the reason the dealer can charge it to 250 miles versus our sub-200 is that the service department is heated, correct? We did heat our garage for a few days just to see if it made any difference, but it didn't. So, not sure what to make of that.

The car has the ability to look at the WEATHER conditions. My unheated garage doesn't change temp very quickly. The other day it dropped to 5 degrees overnight. The garage was a few degrees colder than the previous day when it was in the 30s. I lost significant range per the app. Then the temps went back up, and I gained it right back.

You can conduct this experiment yourself. Check the app first thing in the morning, making sure it updates. Note the range. Then, in the sunny afternoon when it's in the 30s, refresh the app again.

I dropped to 147 miles (at 90%) the other day, and now am back to 176. If the weather warms up, expect closer to 195, all without the garage changing temps much at all.

 

[Chicago-E]

Short trips like my wife's commute really make the GOM pessimistic. She has a 5mi commute each way. Different departure time every day so preconditioning isn't an option. Our GTPE GOM reads 158mi at 90%. The car spends so much energy warming the cabin and battery to go just 5mi. Because of this her efficiency is just 1.9mi/kWh.(she isn't a lead foot) If we drive 10+ miles and we see 2.4-2.6mi/kWh in the cold no problem.

Bought our car early December so cant wait to see what summer efficiency number will look like.

 

[RickMachE]

Short trips like my wife's commute really make the GOM pessimistic. She has a 5mi commute each way. Different departure time every day so preconditioning isn't an option. Our GTPE GOM reads 158mi at 90%. The car spends so much energy warming the cabin and battery to go just 5mi. Because of this her efficiency is just 1.9mi/kWh.(she isn't a lead foot) If we drive 10+ miles and we see 2.4-2.6mi/kWh in the cold no problem.

Bought our car early December so cant wait to see what summer efficiency number will look like.

Keep in mind this is EXACTLY what an ICE vehicle would do.

Start the engine in cold weather. Drive 5 miles, barely get heat. The MPG will be dramatically lower than a long drive.

 

[Chicago-E]

Keep in mind this is EXACTLY what an ICE vehicle would do.

Start the engine in cold weather. Drive 5 miles, barely get heat. The MPG will be dramatically lower than a long drive.

correct but to a much lesser extreme.

 

[RickMachE]

correct but to a much lesser extreme.

1.9 vs. 2.4 is a drop of 21%.

I get 16 miles per gallon on my F-150 in the winter. A 21% drop is 12.7mpg. I can guarantee you that in the first 5 miles on a cold day that's fairly accurate.

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