Fast Charging at Electrify America: Lessons learned

[generaltso]

we can get an adapter to use their stations. Tesla owners will soon have to get used to sharing. THAT will be an up hill struggle.

That won't work with Superchargers.

Sponsored

 

[dbsb3233]

Do you think they throttle them?
Both locations I went were huge, 10 and 6 spots and I was alone. I didn’t understand why I was only pulling 30kW on a 150kW plug.

I don't think it's intentional at all. There's still just some quirks at some stations.

I ran into one bad station (out of 12 charges) on a recent trip between Denver and Vegas. 11 of them were great. I averaged 92 kW overall on those (always staying above 80 kW up to 80%). I loved that it was getting strong power all the way to 80%.

But the one station (Glenwood Springs, CO) was problematic. None of the 4 chargers would start, and I had to call EA to do a remote start. Then when it did start, I was only getting 33 kW throughout. Fortunately I only needed a smaller boost at that station rather than a bigger charge so I wasn't stuck there too long.

It was the coldest stop (30F in the morning), which might have been contributed. But I don't think that was the main problem. A few other stops were at 40F and they were fine. I think that bank just had issues.

 

[Carsinmyblood]

I really hope that EA is able to keep up with their charging infrastructure and add stations soon. It's the only type of charger I seek out when traveling because of the fast charging capabilities.

Every car manufacturer will soon have a vested interest in making charging as painless as possible. But be warned, there are profits to be made and anti-trust laws to navigate. Soon, I think we're going to see chargers regulated as utilities are now, lest we be held hostage at a station with a figurative gun to our collective heads. I can see a consortium buying up all these little companies and cornering regions.

With change comes those interested in making profits.

 

[dbsb3233]

Every car manufacturer will soon have a vested interest in making charging as painless as possible. But be warned, there are profits to be made and anti-trust laws to navigate. Soon, I think we're going to see chargers regulated as utilities are now, lest we be held hostage at a station with a figurative gun to our collective heads. I can see a consortium buying up all these little companies and cornering regions.

With change comes those interested in making profits.

I doubt there's any profit in CCS chargers yet. In fact, they're likely giant money pits due to lack of customer volume. But that will improve this decade as more CCS BEVs come out and market share grows.

Ideally, it would be great if they did become profitable though. That means there would be a natural incentive to put them in everywhere there's demand, just like gas stations.

 

[dbsb3233]

I should have looked at the FordPass app before getting back to the car I guess - but it’s so laggy and slow to update that I wouldn’t have believe it.

You can check the EA app too. Sometimes it was more up-to-date while charging than FordPass, while sometimes it was the other way around.

Although I was using the EA app to start the charges (not Plug&Charge). Not sure if that affects whether charging status appears there or not.

 

[Carsinmyblood]

But that will improve this decade as more CCS BEVs come out and market share grows.

I think these roadside charger might become less necessary as technology improves. The next generation of batteries might provide a 500 mile range from home..... and then Mr. nuclear, but that's a different thread.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Thanks. I remember someone on YouTube speculating that 20% might be faster since the timing could potentially be maximized.

Here's a sample charging curve.

10-20 charging is at ~105kW
70-80 charging is at ~80kW

So 10-70 will be slightly faster than 20-80, but not much. That would be about 25% faster charging during 10% of the charge time (8.8kWh).

You can do the math or look at Tom's charging table:

10-20% took ~5 minutes
70-80% took ~7 minutes
That makes it about 2 minutes faster.

 

[DanCoon]

I haven't had an issue DC charging on any brand, except for the one time I used EA. The session charged for about 20 minutes before some error stopped the charging session. Unfortunately I was already seated at a restaurant about a 10 minute walk away, so I just took the loss instead of walking all the way back.

 

[dbsb3233]

Thanks. I remember someone on YouTube speculating that 20% might be faster since the timing could potentially be maximized.

There's marginal speed gains to be had by trying to charge in sweet spots in the curve, but the curve is proving to be fairly flat in the MME (up to 80%). To the point where we don't find it worth messing with trying to save 2-3 minutes.

Once we've made the commitment to get off/on the interstate more often, a 26 minute stop isn't much worse than a 24 minute stop. So we ended up living more in the 30-80% SOC range for better peace of mind. That way we usually had enough "left in the tank" to reach a back-up charger, just in case.

Although as Mark said, we never left an EA station without being able to charge. We had to call them a few times, but they were always able to get it going remotely if needed. Gained some trust with EA.

 

[rockatansky]

Yeah, if taking it on a long road trip, there's no choice but to use retail chargers.

I was a little fuzzy on his point at first too, but I think what he meant was that Ford (and EVs in general) could do a better job of explaining the advantages of home charging. Which for those that can do it, is typically going to be 95%+ of all their charging. We hear way more about the "how long does it take to charge?", which focuses on DCFC charging. That's important too, but they should really be pushing the "It usually doesn't matter since you just plug in when you get home each evening!" answer.

Last week, we took our first road trip. During one of the charging sessions, an older gentleman came up to me to talk about the car. Almost all of his questions revolved around taking trips and the time/cost to charge when on those trips. I answered those questions, but kept reminding him that almost all of the charging is done at home. I've had the car for almost 3 months, and outside of a test charge at a local EA station, my first away from home charge was on that road trip.

 

[dbsb3233]

I think these roadside charger might become less necessary as technology improves. The next generation of batteries might provide a 500 mile range from home..... and then Mr. nuclear, but that's a different thread.

In smaller cars, probably. But what the better batteries will also do is enable 300 miles in larger vehicles (like SUVs), which many US consumers prefer, and will wait for.

Cost is a big part of it too. You can load up 180 kWh of battery now, but it's very expensive.

 

[dbsb3233]

Here's a sample charging curve.

10-20 charging is at ~105kW
70-80 charging is at ~80kW

So 10-70 will be slightly faster than 20-80, but not much. That would be about 25% faster charging during 10% of the charge time (8.8kWh).

You can do the math or look at Tom's charging table:

10-20% took ~5 minutes
70-80% took ~7 minutes
That makes it about 2 minutes faster.

Yep. In other words, so flat that it's not even worth worrying about (up to 80%). Which I like because it simplifies things. We can prioritize peace of mind that way rather than being a slave to perfection.

Also, that initial 90 second 160 kW boost happens starting (somewhat) later in the curve too.

 

[dbsb3233]

Or more to the point, a PRACTICAL 300-400 ICE miles.

300 mile range in a BEV really means a practical leg max of around 150 miles at interstate speeds. Which is often further limited by charger spacing. For us the charges averaged 117 miles apart.

Sponsored