Heat Pump Performance - Anything to Report?

[Jimrpa]

The 2024 extended range battery had 91 kWh. The 2025 has 88 kWh which is the same as the 2021 but a reduction from 2024.

My suspicion is that the ER battery pack hasn’t changed (look at the GT), but that either Ford moved the “buffer” back to 88, or used old copy. Perhaps @Mach-Lee might know?

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[Jimrpa]

21-24 physical battery is the same. 21 debuted with 88kWh usable but it was software limited and later updated to allow 91kWh usable to match 22-24 after Ford decided they didn’t need as big of a hidden buffer.

2025 extended range received a smaller 88kWh usable battery. Despite the same 88kWh number as 2021 originally, is NOT simply software limited like the 2021 was. It’s actually a battery with physically less battery cells inside.

2025+ GT/Rally retains the older full 91kWh usable battery.

If that’s the case, that’s yet another unfortunate case of decontenting

 

[E90alex]

If that’s the case, that’s yet another unfortunate case of decontenting

Yep. But the EPA rated range is still the same so they supposedly gained more efficiency somewhere.

They cut the Lightning Flash battery from 131 to 123 kWh too, but that had a corresponding reduction in range.

 

[luckie]

21-24 physical battery is the same. 21 debuted with 88kWh usable but it was software limited and later updated to allow 91kWh usable to match 22-24 after Ford decided they didn’t need as big of a hidden buffer.

2025 extended range received a smaller 88kWh usable battery. Despite the same 88kWh number as 2021 originally, is NOT simply software limited like the 2021 was. It’s actually a battery with physically less battery cells inside.

2025+ GT/Rally retains the older full 91kWh usable battery.

This is interesting.

So, of course this makes me curious about the actual size of the 2025 battery versus the usable portion, and thus, the size of the *buffer*.

I recall the original 2021 Mach-E debuted with a full 10% buffer, with a 98.8 kWh(?) actual battery with a 88kWh useable portion. And later the buffer was reduced.

I recall that circa 2021 Teslas and the Chevy Bolt had nearly zero buffer (which entered the conversation when the Chevy Bolts began catching fire).

I do see on January 23 of 2025 that Mach-Lee discussed the slightly smaller battery in the 2025 (with illustration). Yet the actual size in kWh is not clear.
https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/2025-mach-e-order-guide.41979/post-909347

 

[SonicBlue]

I haven’t bothered reading through 5 pages of what appears to be entirely conjecture. Anybody actually do a comparison between a HP and non-HP model?

I’m gonna confidently say that at least 97% of winter range loss is due to cold weather impact on battery chemistry - not the heater efficiency - until someone proves differently. I think the HP might help some but, ironically, not in really cold weather.

 

[ChrisO]

I’m going to throw this out, take it for what is worth, it is just my opinion. The objective is to test the effectiveness of the heat pump over the resistive heater.

To do that the only way to do that would be to drive a 2025 or above on the same route at the same time as a pre-2025 ideally at different temperatures. And then calculate the miles/km per kWh. Otherwise you aren’t eliminating the biggest factors the might throw this evaluation off.

As such unless we get an evaluation from someone with access to these two cars the numbers will be “interesting” but not showing the difference we are looking for.

BTW I found the answer (sort of) to what the COP of the heat pump is. It has never been stated by Ford but isn’t “a number” anyways. Depending on the temperature it can start at say 3 and then go down to 1. In other words it is a curve and that curve is unknown. Which feeds back into this question because there isn’t going to be one size fits all answer if the heat pump helps or not. It will depend on the weather conditions.

 

[RWG]

About 2 months ago we traded in our 2021 Mache for a leased 2025. Regarding the Heat Pump. As a retired Product Manager I question the added feature of a Heat Pump in the Mache. All EV owners and prospective owner focus on "range" and as far as we can tell our 2025 has no additional range over our 2021. In fact, it seems less but I have no data to prove it. Yes we live in the frozen Tundra of Minnesota, and winter has arrived, snow and temps in the 20's. But we have gone through 3 winters with the 2021 and the 2025 is no better, as far as we can tell. When I spec'd the 2025 I purposely requested no moon roof because a moon roof single pain of glass leaks a lot of heat on a cold day at 65 mph. However, even though the 2025 has a metal insulated roof the driving range is no better. As far as I can tell Ford has added complexity, weight and cost, sacrificed frunk volume, for no gain in range, which is the primary focus for the EV market. Heat pumps can be more efficient than electric resistance heat but only to a point of "diminishing returns" i.e. that ambient temp where it is more efficient to utilize an electric heater than it is to run a heat pump system. Isn't it interesting that Ford does not publish the ambient temperature floor i.e. the ambient temp where running a heat pump is a waste of energy. Either Ford engineering and product management fell into a trap of an outlandish science project or there are other engineering design issues at play. As it is, this new feature makes no sense and has no benefit to the customer. My opinion.

In summary, we like the vehicle, it fits our needs but this latest alleged enhancement is puzzling.

 

[SonicBlue]

About 2 months ago we traded in our 2021 Mache for a leased 2025. Regarding the Heat Pump. As a retired Product Manager I question the added feature of a Heat Pump in the Mache. All EV owners and prospective owner focus on "range" and as far as we can tell our 2025 has no additional range over our 2021. In fact, it seems less but I have no data to prove it. Yes we live in the frozen Tundra of Minnesota, and winter has arrived, snow and temps in the 20's. But we have gone through 3 winters with the 2021 and the 2025 is no better, as far as we can tell. When I spec'd the 2025 I purposely requested no moon roof because a moon roof single pain of glass leaks a lot of heat on a cold day at 65 mph. However, even though the 2025 has a metal insulated roof the driving range is no better. As far as I can tell Ford has added complexity, weight and cost, sacrificed frunk volume, for no gain in range, which is the primary focus for the EV market. Heat pumps can be more efficient than electric resistance heat but only to a point of "diminishing returns" i.e. that ambient temp where it is more efficient to utilize an electric heater than it is to run a heat pump system. Isn't it interesting that Ford does not publish the ambient temperature floor i.e. the ambient temp where running a heat pump is a waste of energy. Either Ford engineering and product management fell into a trap of an outlandish science project or there are other engineering design issues at play. As it is, this new feature makes no sense and has no benefit to the customer. My opinion.

In summary, we like the vehicle, it fits our needs but this latest alleged enhancement is puzzling.

Well, ok, but on the plus side you now have an added something that can break in the future (just out of warranty).

 

[ChrisO]

About 2 months ago we traded in our 2021 Mache for a leased 2025. Regarding the Heat Pump. As a retired Product Manager I question the added feature of a Heat Pump in the Mache. All EV owners and prospective owner focus on "range" and as far as we can tell our 2025 has no additional range over our 2021. In fact, it seems less but I have no data to prove it. Yes we live in the frozen Tundra of Minnesota, and winter has arrived, snow and temps in the 20's. But we have gone through 3 winters with the 2021 and the 2025 is no better, as far as we can tell. When I spec'd the 2025 I purposely requested no moon roof because a moon roof single pain of glass leaks a lot of heat on a cold day at 65 mph. However, even though the 2025 has a metal insulated roof the driving range is no better. As far as I can tell Ford has added complexity, weight and cost, sacrificed frunk volume, for no gain in range, which is the primary focus for the EV market. Heat pumps can be more efficient than electric resistance heat but only to a point of "diminishing returns" i.e. that ambient temp where it is more efficient to utilize an electric heater than it is to run a heat pump system. Isn't it interesting that Ford does not publish the ambient temperature floor i.e. the ambient temp where running a heat pump is a waste of energy. Either Ford engineering and product management fell into a trap of an outlandish science project or there are other engineering design issues at play. As it is, this new feature makes no sense and has no benefit to the customer. My opinion.

In summary, we like the vehicle, it fits our needs but this latest alleged enhancement is puzzling.

My guess would be this is more about marketing than a "science project".

If it was a "science project" they would have been publishing all the tests and such of how it has improved things.

 

[SonicBlue]

My guess would be this is more about marketing than a "science project".

If it was a "science project" they would have been publishing all the tests and such of how it has improved things.

 

[eponey]

Zomg my heat pump gets me 500 extra miles and extra horse power due to the pumpiness.

 

[Phrozen]

Do the heat pump models still have the resistive heaters? Our 2022 works well enough in the winter, but below -30 F (which it was today) it can take a while to warm up. I know the heat pump will do almost nothing at this temp so if they don't have the actual heaters, that will push me away from a 2026.

 

[E90alex]

Yes they have a backup PTC heater

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Only bug-a-boo is that the AC indicator on the main sync screen comes on sometimes. Not sure why. I turn it off immediately.

There is no need to do that. Just let it do its thing. The system will use AC as needed to dehumidify the air.

But the “AC” is still the same heat pump unit after all, just cooling instead of heating, so you’re not wasting any extra energy because the heat pump is already running for heat.

Not only that. At low temperatures, the heat pump will get frost forming on its coils and it needs to run “in reverse” (defrost mode) for a brief moment or two to heat up the coils and remove the frost. That’s when the AC comes on for a moment.

Turning it off makes the heat pump less efficient.

https://www.lennox.com/residential/lennox-life/consumer/heat-pump-defrost-cycle

 

[Womps]

I went from a 2023 Mach E with no heat pump to a 2025 Cadillac Optiq with heat pump this year. It is winter here in Alberta now. It’s 3 below Fahrenheit outside now but supposed to warm up to above freezing by mid week so we get all kinds of temperatures. My garage is heated to 50 degrees Fahrenheit. When I start the vehicle remotely to warm it up it is heating by heat pump only. I can tell by the noise and by how slow it warms up. As soon as I back out of the garage and the outside temperature indicator goes from 50 above to below 0 in about 2 minutes you can tell within a minuet the heater is switched over to the resistive heater because within a very short time the heater is blowing hot air instead of warm air. My rule of thumb was after 5 below Fahrenheit I would leave the Mach E in the garage and take the ICE vehicle. Did a 80 kilometer trip with the Optiq at 5 below 0 and had a nice toasty warm vehicle and no problems keeping the windows clear. I was using almost 50% more juice versus a nice summers day drive but we were very comfortable. I don’t think the heat pump is even operating in them cold temperatures.

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