Help me decide: Mach-E or Model Y

[voxel]

IF you are looking for reliability and owning an EV for a long-time (which I don't think is entirely possibly as of today)... why are you considering a first-gen car?

I see you are an Prius and Outback (great choices). The only EV I can see lasting 8+ years is the Tesla Model 3 Standard Range Plus with the new LFP battery. It's a sedan without the SUV cargo space.

Studies have shown LFPs have much longer lifetimes than NMC/NCA batteries (generally known but now we have proof).
https://www.onecharge.biz/blog/lfp-lithium-batteries-live-longer-than-nmc/

LFP batteries are NOT recommended for cold climates. They are currently used in cheap Chinese EVs because they cheaper to produce (but less energy dense). Two HUGE positives are they can be charged to 100% and left at that charge (without damaging the battery) AND they are NOT as flammable as NMC/NCA (used by other EV makers) since they have a higher flashpoint.

You should watch also videos of folks puncturing LFP vs. NMC/NCA batteries... it's eye-opening.

I suspect more EV makers will use LFPs on base model EVs in the future. For high-performance vehicles like the Mach-E Premium or GT... it's a terrible battery choice.

EDIT: I recommended the Model 3 SR+ because it is one of the most glitch free EVs. Flawless. Tesla has the EV drivetrain + navigation + charging eco-system to an exact science. For me.. I'm willing to be beta-tester Ford. The Mach-E is just DIFFERENT and this from a guy who just bought a Model Y as a "filler" car until my Mach-E arrives in late summer 2022.

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[ab13]

There are Ford extended service plans (ESP) if you want coverage up to 8 yrs/150k miles. Although that would only help cover issues, not prevent them. Given the car market today, whichever car you get you could probably sell or trade in for minimal loss if you change your mind in the near future.

Your Mach E is the Rt1 2022? If so they added more features to it over the 2021. Mainly heated seats and steering wheel.

 

[B25Nut]

1. Auto-Hold was very jarring coming out of at low speeds. The dealer should it can be disabled, but I wonder how that will help. The "gas" pedal is so touchy at low speed.
2. Braking felt very natural.

Overall it was very nice to finally get behind the wheel of an MME and I was quite impressed with it.

Definitely turn Auto-Hold off. The MME will still not roll backwards when you make a start up an incline and initial acceleration will always be smooth. I feel Ford couldn't have done a better job with the brakes.

 

[Malacandra]

For those with price sensitivity (I raise my hand, here), note that many of the M3s and MYs just had a $2K price bump yesterday. This is in addition to price bumps a couple of weeks ago.

 

[oadesign]

If you haven't yet, try and get a test drive on both vehicles.

Arrived to test drive the MME snickering, not expecting to be blown away. It was refined, while the Model Y, although cool, rode harshly and had an annoying rattle. Ordered the MME the next day. My wife agreed on all counts, too. The $7.5K tax rebate is icing on the cake.

 

[oadesign]

Oh believe me, this is very relevant to the decision. I will be purchasing the car in 2022, at which time congress may have reinstated the $7500 tax credit for Tesla. If both companies get the same credit, the decision is still a wash. Congress is also considering a $12,000 tax credit for Ford because it is unionized, which again would make this decision a lot easier. If Ford has the credit but Tesla doesn't, I will probably go with the Ford. If the Ford has the credit but the Tesla is available now and the Ford isn't there for another 3 months, I don't know... (We're getting a new car so our daughter can get a hand-me-down and drive herself to school, so sooner is better. She'll get her license a few months from now.) Still, the decision isn't purely financial. I want to love this car.

$12K will be reserved for unionized, USA-built. Since the MME is assembled in Mexico, the rebate would remain at $7.5K.

 

[KevinS]

Not having a Tesla dealer less than 2 1/2 hours away sealed the deal for me to go with the MME. Also, my last ICE was a 2016 Mustang, so I liked the "last ICE/first EV" symmetry of the purchase.

 

[oadesign]

Pro or con depending on your own preferences but the category that helped me decide: Douchebag owner who publicly acts like a child, manipulates stocks and sells a bag of lies to consumers promising full self driving to the tune of $10k and years later still hasn’t produced it and admitted he doesn’t think he ever will, yet is still allowing people to pay that $10k. Regularly changes pricing on his vehicles on a whim often undercutting existing customers and prefers his consumers to be beta testers.

Tesla 1 - Ford 0

Also, his cars are ugly in my opinion

Even though your comments are subjective, they’re all true…

 

[oadesign]

If you want the extra range, I assume it’s because you need it. And if you like the known quantity of the software that runs the Tesla, can’t get that in the MME.
Tesla’s got the charging network to make full use of the range, Ford doesn’t, yet. If these are your top priorities, get the MY and save the MME for someone else. ?
I got the MMEGT so I could do this:

A: Does the rack, when empty and folded up, mess with the MME’s backup cameras?

 

[pepper]

IF you are looking for reliability and owning an EV for a long-time (which I don't think is entirely possibly as of today)... why are you considering a first-gen car?

It’s a fair question and one of the points I raised in my initial post (Advantage Tesla) but hasn’t really been discussed much in this thread after 200+ posts. That’s why I’m asking it again. Since the Mach-E would only be in its second year when I pick it up, I would not be surprised by the occasional software bug or minor warranty service. However, I would be regretting my decision if I had any of the experiences like the three I linked to a few posts back. I would not be too happy about getting stranded or being without a car for two months.

Also, I’m curious about your comment regarding long time EV ownership not being possible today. That doesn’t match with the positive experiences I’ve heard from my Tesla owning friends, though not having one myself maybe I’m missing something. One friend in particular has a high mileage Model S from 2013, and he still swears it’s the best car he’s purchased (apart from a few early production issues he got fixed under warranty).

 

[pepper]

Not having a Tesla dealer less than 2 1/2 hours away sealed the deal for me to go with the MME. Also, my last ICE was a 2016 Mustang, so I liked the "last ICE/first EV" symmetry of the purchase.

And if you were surrounded by Tesla dealers, would you have reconsidered? I’m in Silicon Valley, and they are every. As ubiquitous as Starbucks. (well maybe that’s an exaggeration but only slightly)

 

[AlbanyIan]

A: Does the rack, when empty and folded up, mess with the MME’s backup cameras?

It definitely thinks there’s something back there. I had the brakes activate once but I was also next to a wall in the parking garage. In general, I haven’t found it to be an issue.

 

[KevinS]

And if you were surrounded by Tesla dealers, would you have reconsidered? I’m in Silicon Valley, and they are every. As ubiquitous as Starbucks. (well maybe that’s an exaggeration but only slightly)

Sure, because I'd be able to get a better firsthand experience with the dealership support. I had very good experience with my local Ford dealer from my prior Mustang, so that wasn't a concern I had with the Mach-E.

 

[voxel]

It’s a fair question and one of the points I raised in my initial post (Advantage Tesla) but hasn’t really been discussed much in this thread after 200+ posts. That’s why I’m asking it again. Since the Mach-E would only be in its second year when I pick it up, I would not be surprised by the occasional software bug or minor warranty service. However, I would be regretting my decision if I had any of the experiences like the three I linked to a few posts back. I would not be too happy about getting stranded or being without a car for two months.

Also, I’m curious about your comment regarding long time EV ownership not being possible today. That doesn’t match with the positive experiences I’ve heard from my Tesla owning friends, though not having one myself maybe I’m missing something. One friend in particular has a high mileage Model S from 2013, and he still swears it’s the best car he’s purchased (apart from a few early production issues he got fixed under warranty).

I think in mild temperate places, EVs might last decades. But I have serious reservations about NMC/NCA batteries not encountering severe 20-30% degradation after 8 years - especially in colder climates or extremely hot climates. The cost of replacing that battery might be $10-15K.

So I should say I believe that everything except the battery and some incidental electronics (i.e cameras, sensors, door window motors, mirror motors, etc.) will survive 10+ years.

 

[EVready]

Fascinating thread: Like the OP, I am considering either the Premium ER MME, MYLR, and perhaps the Audi Q4 50 AWD. I have test driven the MY and MME, as well as a rear drive ID4. I liked the MY and MME, but was not impressed with the ID4. When the Q4 is available I will try it as well.

The other consideration is timing: I do not need to get delivery until about a year from now, which I am hoping alters some of the factors from the various manufacturers. (i.e. supply chain, more cars available, new models/manufacturers, settled rebates). It may mean to place an order months in advance, but that may be advisable.

From a reliability, quality perspective I believe the MME will be more predictable in year 2 with fewer issues (probably mostly software). I expect the MY with the new batteries and frames to be better but with new process issues. It will be interesting to see how all this plays out.

The other major component regarding purchase is charging...like many here I will be charging at home >95% of the time so the network is less of a decision factor.

And lastly a more of a psychological issue: the demographic where each car is aimed. It seems to me that the MY is aimed at a fairly young demographic, perhaps millennials (movies, games, fart)? Where the MME is aimed at folks who could be a tad older (with the more traditional controls, etc) but I may be wrong....what do you think?

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