I'm giving up

[SpaceEVDriver]

All I can say is, as much as we hate to have to deal with it, it must be 10x worse to work in that environment. I can't imagine that people act that way in dealerships because they want to, or because car salesman jobs attract those personality types...

I'm willing to give some things a pass. I know it's part of the script: "I have to ask the next questions: do you want the underbody sealer? No, okay. Do you want the window etching? No, good. Do you want the...?" Or the finance person, "I have to ask, do you want GAP, etc."
I understand they have to go through that script and as annoying as it is, I forgive that.

I'm not willing to forgive the rudeness or dismissiveness to my wife. We've walked out of almost completed sales because of this.

I'm not willing to give the shady practices a pass: not posting the price, VIN, or window sticker online (for an on-lot vehicle). Or the "oh, we added that window etching as soon as the vehicle arrived; the law says we have to, and we have to pass the cost on to you."

Most of the shady practices are at the dealer level, not the salesperson level. The rudeness and dismissiveness is a personal choice.

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[RickMachE]

I'm willing to give some things a pass. I know it's part of the script: "I have to ask the next questions: do you want the underbody sealer? No, okay. Do you want the window etching? No, good. Do you want the...?" Or the finance person, "I have to ask, do you want GAP, etc."
I understand they have to go through that script and as annoying as it is, I forgive that.

I'm not willing to forgive the rudeness or dismissiveness to my wife. We've walked out of almost completed sales because of this.

I'm not willing to give the shady practices a pass: not posting the price, VIN, or window sticker online (for an on-lot vehicle). Or the "oh, we added that window etching as soon as the vehicle arrived; the law says we have to, and we have to pass the cost on to you."

Most of the shady practices are at the dealer level, not the salesperson level. The rudeness and dismissiveness is a personal choice.

Some of the issues you've raised are due to a lack of awareness of how a dealership functions, and how to get around some of these things.

For example, like many commission sales environments, there is a rotation of salespeople for cold visits, i.e. people who just walk in. You walk in, the next up gets you.

As to "I understand they have to go through that script", no, they do not. It's your choice to allow them to take you through that process.

Many years ago, I worked for a big company in a sales role, and was undertaking a 4 month training program in a major city. In that city, there were 1/2 dozen or more of each car brand. In my city, there was one. That one didn't want to negotiate on anything, so I drove my car to this other city for my next class (paid mileage and by the hour), and bought the vehicle I wanted at a pre-negotiated price including my trade-in, then drove back after class ended, then went to the original dealership and told them what they lost out on. I was a kid, didn't know better.

Because I'd had that training, I know all the tricks. I choose not to play. Prior to having X-Plan, then A-Plan, I contacted the GM of a business, explain I want to buy a vehicle and not play all the games, not sit in the finance guy's office. I bought several vehicles this way before getting plan eligibility. At my previous dealership with my now-retired salesperson, I'd call him up and arrange for a test drive of say 3 different trim F-150s. He'd have them lined up side by side for us to compare, and then drive. I'd pick what I wanted, and he'd start a search for the vehicle. When it came in, he'd have the paperwork ready, and after carefully inspecting the car I'd sit in his office and sign. No attempt to sell anything but the vehicle.

Bought my 2018 Fusion Energi from a new dealership from the GM, and the Mach-E. Same thing. Sign, flip over, sign, flip over, ... Done in maybe 10 minutes, then some waiting while they process the paperwork and make copies.

Don't let yourself be led through a process you don't like. You're the customer.

 

[Caramel]

Because they are calling it a Performance Edition and it is very much not. And I’m not willing to spend the money on the risk that the problem is a hardware limitation that cannot be resolved via an update like a software limitation could be resolved.

Very understandable. The track performances we’ve seen so far have been disappointing.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Some of the issues you've raised are due to a lack of awareness of how a dealership functions, and how to get around some of these things.

I think I didn't make my point very well.
Some behaviors at the dealer are annoying but not deal-breaking.

Others are completely unacceptable. There are enough of these latter behaviors that make me ready for Amazon Prime Car Buying. Order it, have it delivered to my home, talk to nobody.

 

[RockwallRick]

In my earlier post I probably made it sound to easy! I called lots of dealers within 200 miles of where we live. At the time a lot of dealers were advertising demo cars which were not available for sale. I was very fortunate to find exactly what we were looking for at a dealer close by with NO ADM added to the price!!

 

[Caramel]

I'm willing to give some things a pass. I know it's part of the script: "I have to ask the next questions: do you want the underbody sealer? No, okay. Do you want the window etching? No, good. Do you want the...?" Or the finance person, "I have to ask, do you want GAP, etc."
I understand they have to go through that script and as annoying as it is, I forgive that.

I'm not willing to forgive the rudeness or dismissiveness to my wife. We've walked out of almost completed sales because of this.

I'm not willing to give the shady practices a pass: not posting the price, VIN, or window sticker online (for an on-lot vehicle). Or the "oh, we added that window etching as soon as the vehicle arrived; the law says we have to, and we have to pass the cost on to you."

Most of the shady practices are at the dealer level, not the salesperson level. The rudeness and dismissiveness is a personal choice.

Absolutely. I am right there with you.

My first job out of college, early 2000s, I worked in a business to business sales job. Not shifty or illegal like the movies “Boiler Room” or “Glengary Glenn Ross” but still a lot of management pressure, “champagne is for closers,” competitive environment. Aggressive sales techniques were encouraged. I hated it and got out as soon as I could. My boss still would have disapproved what I’ve encountered - listing vehicles as available online when they’re already sold, being downright rude to women, not replying to emails that express clear interest, etc.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Absolutely. I am right there with you.

My first job out of college, early 2000s, I worked in a business to business sales job. Not shifty or illegal like the movies “Boiler Room” or “Glengary Glenn Ross” but still a lot of management pressure, “champagne is for closers,” competitive environment. Aggressive sales techniques were encouraged. I hated it and got out as soon as I could. My boss still would have disapproved what I’ve encountered - listing vehicles as available online when they’re already sold, being downright rude to women, not replying to emails that express clear interest, etc.

In another thread (dealers getting in the way), I talked about how we almost bought an ID.4 because the saleswoman who talked to us about the vehicle spoke to both of us as adults who were making a decision together instead of just to me.

Dealing with people treating my wife like that is frustrating for me and I can't imagine how much worse it is for my wife or anyone else to be treated like that.

One time she walked out of a dealership because they asked her if she had my permission to buy the vehicle. A week later, we sent them a letter with a photo of the truck she bought from a different dealer.

 

[Caramel]

In my earlier post I probably made it sound to easy! I called lots of dealers within 200 miles of where we live. At the time a lot of dealers were advertising demo cars which were not available for sale. I was very fortunate to find exactly what we were looking for at a dealer close by with NO ADM added to the price!!

I just don’t want to spend the time anymore. If I keep going, I’ll probably will find what I want. But I’ll still keep running into the deception (listing cars online that aren’t actually available), condescending attitudes, difficulty in getting answers to simple questions, despite getting multiple emails and calls from the dealership that doesn’t answer the question, salespeople that pressure me to give them my full name, email address, phone number before answering my “is the Mach-e I saw online available?” I’ve been spending at least a couple of hours a day doing this, and I am no longer willing to spend that much time, especially when many (not all!) of the dealers are so difficult.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I just don’t want to spend the time anymore. If I keep going, I’ll probably will find what I want. But I’ll still keep running into the deception (listing cars online that aren’t actually available), condescending attitudes, difficulty in getting answers to simple questions, despite getting multiple emails and calls from the dealership that doesn’t answer the question, salespeople that pressure me to give them my full name, email address, phone number before answering my “is the Mach-e I saw online available?” I’ve been spending at least a couple of hours a day doing this, and I am no longer willing to spend that much time, especially when many (not all!) of the dealers are so difficult.

Have you tried Carvana or Vroom? The issue with them or the other vehicle delivery services is that they only deal in used cars, so you would lose the tax credit, and the cars are selling for about MSRP. However, you might be able to get something delivered within a couple of days and you won't have to put up with dealers.

 

[DYohn]

I think I didn't make my point very well.
Some behaviors at the dealer are annoying but not deal-breaking.

Others are completely unacceptable. There are enough of these latter behaviors that make me ready for Amazon Prime Car Buying. Order it, have it delivered to my home, talk to nobody.

Two options: Costco Car Buying Service (if you are a member) and shop for a better dealership. I had a great experience at Robert Horne in Apache Junction. It may be worth a drive, depending on where you are in Arizona.

 

[mkhuffman]

I just don’t want to spend the time anymore. If I keep going, I’ll probably will find what I want. But I’ll still keep running into the deception (listing cars online that aren’t actually available), condescending attitudes, difficulty in getting answers to simple questions, despite getting multiple emails and calls from the dealership that doesn’t answer the question, salespeople that pressure me to give them my full name, email address, phone number before answering my “is the Mach-e I saw online available?” I’ve been spending at least a couple of hours a day doing this, and I am no longer willing to spend that much time, especially when many (not all!) of the dealers are so difficult.

When (and if) you are ready to try again, it can be done. In my case I ordered a Premium ER on May 15 from my local dealer. No issues, great dealer, and they honor x-plan pricing. But they are small, and my state is a non-ZEV state, so my order sat there for 4 months before Ford finally accepted it. Meanwhile I lost my patience and started looking, just like you are.

I also decided I would rather have a GT, so I went through all the GT ads on Autotrader and found some with the colors I wanted. I made the availability request through Autotrader, and I refused to communicate with any of them except via email or text. That saved a lot of time because I could respond when I was available, and I could easily weed out the ones that either didn't have cars, or didn't really respond with an answer (just like you have experienced).

One of the dealers who responded to my query said the car was already sold, but that they had two on order if I was interested in one of them. I had other dealers tell me that, but sometimes "on order" meant it was not really ordered - they would create a new order for me. But this dealer was able to provide me with a VIN that had a window sticker created, so I knew it was really on order with a production date in the past. The dealer said it was on chip hold, and the VVR proved that. So I gave them a $500 deposit to put that order in my name.

The dealer gave me x-plan pricing, no ADM, and I have been tracking the delivery process. It is off chip hold now, and should be in KC next week. Then it goes on another train to DE, and then to the dealer, hopefully around the end of this month. My Premium order still has not been scheduled for production. I am willing to bet it gets bumped to a 2022 MY. Regardless, I won't be taking that delivery. Hopefully I can get my deposit back.

When you feel like trying again, I would do your search only utilizing email and text. There are cars out there, you just have to find them. BTW, the dealership I found is in NJ, which is a seven hour drive from my home. NJ is a ZEV state, VA is not. You may find ZEV states have more availability, and bigger dealers in ZEV states are more likely to have cars available. Like the guy who had his car delivered to CA from FL, you just have to be willing to go a ways to get it.

 

[yngwenli]

When (and if) you are ready to try again, it can be done. In my case I ordered a Premium ER on May 15 from my local dealer. No issues, great dealer, and they honor x-plan pricing. But they are small, and my state is a non-ZEV state, so my order sat there for 4 months before Ford finally accepted it. Meanwhile I lost my patience and started looking, just like you are.

I also decided I would rather have a GT, so I went through all the GT ads on Autotrader and found some with the colors I wanted. I made the availability request through Autotrader, and I refused to communicate with any of them except via email or text. That saved a lot of time because I could respond when I was available, and I could easily weed out the ones that either didn't have cars, or didn't really respond with an answer (just like you have experienced).

One of the dealers who responded to my query said the car was already sold, but that they had two on order if I was interested in one of them. I had other dealers tell me that, but sometimes "on order" meant it was not really ordered - they would create a new order for me. But this dealer was able to provide me with a VIN that had a window sticker created, so I knew it was really on order with a production date in the past. The dealer said it was on chip hold, and the VVR proved that. So I gave them a $500 deposit to put that order in my name.

The dealer gave me x-plan pricing, no ADM, and I have been tracking the delivery process. It is off chip hold now, and should be in KC next week. Then it goes on another train to DE, and then to the dealer, hopefully around the end of this month. My Premium order still has not been scheduled for production. I am willing to bet it gets bumped to a 2022 MY. Regardless, I won't be taking that delivery. Hopefully I can get my deposit back.

When you feel like trying again, I would do your search only utilizing email and text. There are cars out there, you just have to find them. BTW, the dealership I found is in NJ, which is a seven hour drive from my home. NJ is a ZEV state, VA is not. You may find ZEV states have more availability, and bigger dealers in ZEV states are more likely to have cars available. Like the guy who had his car delivered to CA from FL, you just have to be willing to go a ways to get it.

Please update us when you get the car. I think buying cancelled cars for no-ADM is pretty rare currently (even outside of the Mach-E) so I wanted to see if they follow through with that since that's an easy $2-10k paycheck for people who have to eat too.

Like the housing comment above, having MSRP $$ means very little in this new car environment when everyone else has the same $$ and more. House down the street from me sold in 2 days at 15% over asking.

It's great if you don't have to play the game currently (buy a car (house) right now).

 

[AMC Awesome]

I paid sticker / 0 mark-up for a GTPE from Park City Ford in Bridgeport, CT. Easy transaction and good, helpful people.

 

[Caramel]

Have you tried Carvana or Vroom? The issue with them or the other vehicle delivery services is that they only deal in used cars, so you would lose the tax credit, and the cars are selling for about MSRP. However, you might be able to get something delivered within a couple of days and you won't have to put up with dealers.

I have! Finding out info on extended range or standard range battery is difficult on those sites, especially Vroom if I'm not mixing the two up right now. I wasn't quite quick enough on a few though that fit my needs, which is what it is.

 

[Caramel]

I paid sticker / 0 mark-up for a GTPE from Park City Ford in Bridgeport, CT. Easy transaction and good, helpful people.

A part of my issue is where I'm located, I'm sure. I started my search within 500 miles of Denver, thinking it's a reasonable solo road trip back and a cheap plane ticket out. I didn't really have the bandwidth to search a larger area. I'm going to take a break for a couple of weeks, since I have a lot of other stuff going on, then start my search again, but this time across the continental USA. I now know all the dealers nearer me to avoid! That will save me some time at least!

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