Is the Mach-E really 7 years behind Tesla?

[kdryden99]

But was not clear to me was if this was something unique to Tesla or was it an innovation by Panasonic. Tesla does not make their own batteries. If this is a Panasonic innovation than it will be available to all EV manufacturers.

Their plan is to make their own batteries and therefore offer different grade of batteries depending the car you buy

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[Nak]

But was not clear to me was if this was something unique to Tesla or was it an innovation by Panasonic. Tesla does not make their own batteries. If this is a Panasonic innovation than it will be available to all EV manufacturers.

It is a Tesla innovation and you can be sure it is a Tesla patent. However, as I pointed out earlier in this thread, Elon was clear that this technology will be made available to other EV manufacturers. The Tesla mission is to move the world towards a sustainable future. It would be hypocritical not to at least sell the batteries or license their manufacture to all EV producers. The better ALL EVs do, the better we all do.

I've said it before, the Mach-e and Tesla are not competing against each other. They are both part of the same push to move the world forward. The better that the Mach-e is perceived, the more Teslas Elon will sell. The better Tesla does, the more Mach-e's Ford will sell. It's all about changing the public's perception of EVs.

 

[DaveRuns]

To me the only thing Tesla offers over the Mach E is hype.

“Hype”.....and Super Chargers....and navigate / change lanes with autopilot.

 

[Jolteon]

To me the only thing Tesla offers over the Mach E is hype.

So a built-in four camera dashcam (including auto saving clips on horn honk) and Sentry Mode doesn't sound appealing?

I haven't talked to a single person who doesn't want that on their car, and my Tesla has it - and has had it for quite a while.

It's prevented an insurance claim for me when I could prove that the road hazard I hit was unavoidable. I'm very nervous about living without it.

Not to mention the in-car Chrome browser, built-in podcast streaming, built-in Netflix/YouTube streaming, advanced anti-allergen air filtration system, etc.

Now believe me, the Mach-E has some better features - the drainable frunk comes to mind. But I REALLY don't want to leave these Tesla features behind. I truly find it unacceptable that these obvious, non-patented, and customer benefitting features are not already on the Mach-E and Ford has committed via Instagram that they WILL NOT be adding these features via OTA.

So yes, the Mach-E is behind Tesla.

And Ford doesn't have a problem with that.

And *THAT* is what I have a problem with.

 

[Jolteon]

“Hype”.....and Super Chargers....and navigate / change lanes with autopilot.

My Tesla doesn't even have Autopilot and I still worry the Mach-E is behind it in technology. There's more tech features on Tesla than Autopilot.

 

[jlauro]

I agree, Tesla has a pretty steep curve and so it's peak rate has only over a very small portion of the charging cycle when the battery is mostly but not too near empty Ford's could actually average out better if it's flatter.

The CCS networks are growing many times faster than the supercharger network. Also, recent dramatic gains in reliability.

That is somewhat an advantage for Tesla, as they can use CCS with an adapter... so Tesla will always be larger than CCS even if CCS grows faster than Tesla's charging network.

My Tesla doesn't even have Autopilot and I still worry the Mach-E is behind it in technology. There's more tech features on Tesla than Autopilot.

The Mach E isn't even out you so it's silly to compare technology. I am sure there are some technology lacking in the Tesla. For example, does the Tesla have anything equivalent to pony lights?

 

[TheLight75]

I've said it before, the Mach-e and Tesla are not competing against each other. They are both part of the same push to move the world forward. The better that the Mach-e is perceived, the more Teslas Elon will sell. The better Tesla does, the more Mach-e's Ford will sell. It's all about changing the public's perception of EVs.

You may not think the Mach-E is competing against Tesla's MY, but I'm pretty sure Ford thinks differently. In their 4-part webinar series, they allude many times to Tesla. It's clear that Ford wants the Mustang to succeed and set a new direction for legacy automakers. Ford looks to be betting the future of the company on this so they will be willing to bring to bear significant resources to get this double-pivot right.

The MME & MY aren't exact feature-for-feature copies which is great as it allows the market to determine whichever model suits each person's individual wants & tastes. I've noticed a trend that a lot of M3 & MY owners don't care about fit & finish or paint issues because they just want to play with all the cool tech. To them, a Tesla is just a car-shaped smartphone - all defined by software. This makes sense as Tesla is a technology engineering company, who just happened to build a car to house some of their cutting-edge technology. Ford's focus (lol) is on making a car that drives really well and has some pretty cool technology. That's very appealing to a different set of people who want to go BEV but don't find Teslas attractive. What gets me excited about driving the MME is hearing about how Ford used their racing simulator to optimize MME performance in both software & hardware. Tesla for now may be the winner in raw straight-line acceleration, but I'm willing to bet that the MME will handle better than any Tesla.

Tesla is a pioneer in the space who showed that exciting BEVs are possible. My prediction is that eventually, Tesla will be outmatched by the larger legacy automakers in 3-5 years and they will decide to stop making cars. At that time, they'll focus on being a battery, solar, and power management company.

 

[efisher]

Their plan is to make their own batteries and therefore offer different grade of batteries depending the car you buy

It will never happen. The established battery makers are way to far ahead and have a huge incentive to stay that way because they are operating in a tremendously competitive and rapidly evolving field. Battery development and manufacturing is far more difficult and competitive than EVs production since the big players until now were not really in the game.

 

[efisher]

So a built-in four camera dashcam (including auto saving clips on horn honk) and Sentry Mode doesn't sound appealing?

I haven't talked to a single person who doesn't want that on their car, and my Tesla has it - and has had it for quite a while.

It's prevented an insurance claim for me when I could prove that the road hazard I hit was unavoidable. I'm very nervous about living without it.

Not to mention the in-car Chrome browser, built-in podcast streaming, built-in Netflix/YouTube streaming, advanced anti-allergen air filtration system, etc.

Now believe me, the Mach-E has some better features - the drainable frunk comes to mind. But I REALLY don't want to leave these Tesla features behind. I truly find it unacceptable that these obvious, non-patented, and customer benefitting features are not already on the Mach-E and Ford has committed via Instagram that they WILL NOT be adding these features via OTA.

So yes, the Mach-E is behind Tesla.

And Ford doesn't have a problem with that.

And *THAT* is what I have a problem with.

You may think that generating a recording from the car's set of camera's offers some massive competitive advantage, but I don't. Furthermore, given Tesla's half-baked implementation of sentry mode, I don't think Tesla does either. Indeed, I would make the same case for Netflix/YouTube integration and the air filtration system.

 

[efisher]

“Hype”.....and Super Chargers....and navigate / change lanes with autopilot.

Exactly, Hype. Everybody seems to be crowing about Tesla's Super Chargers as if there are no other ways to charge an EV. That may have been true six years ago, but it is hardly true today and will be less and less true as time goes on. Indeed, I am willing to predict that within five years the Super Charger network will prove to be a millstone wrapped around Tesla's neck draining capital that will be increasing important as the EV market becomes more and more competitive. As far as navigation, the Mach E will offer 95% of what Tesla offers upon initial delivery and will close the gap within a year for far less than the $8,000 that Tesla is demanding.

 

[RyZt]

That is somewhat an advantage for Tesla, as they can use CCS with an adapter... so Tesla will always be larger than CCS even if CCS grows faster than Tesla's charging network.

There's no adapter between Tesla and CCS (North America variant) that can do DCFC. Adapters in both direction can only do AC charging.

There's none right now. And no one knows if there will ever be.

 

[timbop]

There's no adapter between Tesla and CCS (North America variant) that can do DCFC. Adapters in both direction can only do AC charging.

There's none right now. And no one knows if there will ever be.

"yet"

 

[RyZt]

"yet"

Tesla never indicated that there will be. So it's any one's guess.

I'm not a lawyer, so my understanding may be unrealistic. I'm happy to be presuaded. My personal take on Tesla/CCS adapter in US is that it won't be available due to PR and political/legal reason, for as long as Tesla still considers SuperCharger a completing advantage. Tesla would not want to risk being compelled into opening its network by court or by "court of public opinions" or by legislative action.

• There's a concept in the world of patents called "fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory (FRAND)". So it's not without precedent that companies can be compelled to share.
• Public charging is an expensive infrastructure. Electricity is already heavily regulated anyways.
• Tesla is more or less being seen as a symbol of inequality, and is certainly the predominant brand of expensive EVs in US. Many US states have been discriminating against expensive EVs in sales tax, incentives, and registration fees. Voters in many states would probably be happy to vote against Tesla.

Note I said "risk". I'm not saying having an adapter will result in Tesla losing its walled garden. I'm merely saying it increases the risk.

 

[Badger_Prof]

So a built-in four camera dashcam (including auto saving clips on horn honk) and Sentry Mode doesn't sound appealing?

I haven't talked to a single person who doesn't want that on their car, and my Tesla has it - and has had it for quite a while.

It's prevented an insurance claim for me when I could prove that the road hazard I hit was unavoidable. I'm very nervous about living without it.

Not to mention the in-car Chrome browser, built-in podcast streaming, built-in Netflix/YouTube streaming, advanced anti-allergen air filtration system, etc.

Now believe me, the Mach-E has some better features - the drainable frunk comes to mind. But I REALLY don't want to leave these Tesla features behind. I truly find it unacceptable that these obvious, non-patented, and customer benefitting features are not already on the Mach-E and Ford has committed via Instagram that they WILL NOT be adding these features via OTA.

So yes, the Mach-E is behind Tesla.

And Ford doesn't have a problem with that.

And *THAT* is what I have a problem with.

I suspect this member is a reincarnation of Mach-MI given the similarity of definitive comments expressing the superiority of Tesla. Now you know a person who does not care about a four camera dashcam--me. Dashcams have been available after-market for years. My brother loves his (and often sends me videos from the dashcam in his Porsche as he drives the curves) but I have never felt it was worth the value to me and I have never had a situation where I have later thought "darn I wish I had video of that." That said, it is entirely possible that I would learn to like the feature if it were standard on my car and I might even think "why did I wait so long for this feature." The in car Netflix/You Tube, etc. features are just silly (to me, albeit obviously critical features to Jolteon and Mach_MI).

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