Jump starting ICEs

[ChasingCoral]

I haven’t seen any mention of a 120v AC outlet or seen one in any Mach-E pictures, so I don’t think there is one. Which is a real bummer because they could power it off the drive battery to support high wattage. My Outlander PHEV has an AC plug that‘s rated for 1500 watts. It’s been great to be able to run an extension cord from the refrigerator to the garage during power outages.

The Mach E has 2 12v outlets and 4 USB but no 110v. You can connect an inverter to the battery up front or jump a car if you’re desperate. Drive batteries recharge the 12v but we don’t know how quickly yet. My Leaf has a 1 kW inverter to charge the 12v.

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[GoGoGadgetMachE]

The Mach E has 2 12v outlets and 4 USB but no 110v. You can connect an inverter to the battery up front or jump a car if you’re desperate. Drive batteries recharge the 12v but we don’t know how quickly yet. My Leaf has a 1 kW inverter to charge the 12v.

while this feels a little unfortunate - my Fusion has a 120V, for example - I wonder how much it will really matter. The only use cases I can think of for a 120V in the Mach-E would be something like camping or extended laptop use for a non-USB-C laptop. I'm sure there are others of course - but the USB port count buys you a lot.

 

[ChasingCoral]

while this feels a little unfortunate - my Fusion has a 120V, for example - I wonder how much it will really matter. The only use cases I can think of for a 120V in the Mach-E would be something like camping or extended laptop use for a non-USB-C laptop. I'm sure there are others of course - but the USB port count buys you a lot.

And for light duty applications like those a 110v inverter to plug into the 12v is cheap.

 

[SnBGC]

Is there the equivalent of a 12v battery terminal to connect jumper cables to jump start stranded ICE drivers?
Or should I throw away my jumper cables?
I also have a 600w inverter that clips to regular battery terminals or plugs into 12v accessory socket (formerly used for cigarette lighters).

Really good question. I would keep the cables if you have other needs for it. I chose to purchase a portable jumper battery and I keep it in the storage area with the convenience EVSE and tire sealer kit. Your 120v inverter would probably fit in that space too.

Our C-Max Energi has a 120v receptacle in the back of the center console. The FFE does not. I wonder if the MME will have one???

The portable jumper pack doesnt have to be high amps.....just needs to have enough boost to wake up the computer modules and then the HVB will take over (via DC-DC converter onboard)

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

Really good question. I would keep the cables if you have other needs for it. I chose to purchase a portable jumper battery and I keep it in the storage area with the convenience EVSE and tire sealer kit. Your 120v inverter would probably fit in that space too.

Our C-Max Energi has a 120v receptacle in the back of the center console. The FFE does not. I wonder if the MME will have one???

The portable jumper pack doesnt have to be high amps.....just needs to have enough boost to wake up the computer modules and then the HVB will take over (via DC-DC converter onboard)

This is very interesting to me since it sounds like you've been successful doing this. I had such a jump starter battery - a nice, well-reviewed, large-capacity Anker - that couldn't get my Fusion Energi to cooperate when it had a flat 12V battery. There just wasn't enough power, it seemed. I never tried a different unit or anything - I just took it as a hint.

 

[SnBGC]

"Warning! You will die from electricity unless you read the owner's manual book that you don't have because it's all electronic!"
that's a rough translation

There is some truth to this humor.
When you guys get your cars.....there will be lots of bright orange connectors and cables. Dont mess with any of them. Very dangerous. Ford does a VERY good job to ensure they are not live while the vehicle is off but better to be safe anyway.

First thing we all should do is browse the owners manual and find the emergency disconnect device. Then physically locate it so you know how to find it. Then show everyone in your household so they know too.

If you or your family gets into an accident then knowing where to find that connector could save your life and/or the lives of first responders.

 

[kdryden99]

Um...one quote cancels the other???

you can kill the 12v to the point where it doesnt charge so i would boost a car. both quotes are ver accurate. You can break the 12v by completely draining it and larger battery wont charge 12v fast enough

 

[SnBGC]

This is very interesting to me since it sounds like you've been successful doing this. I had such a jump starter battery - a nice, well-reviewed, large-capacity Anker - that couldn't get my Fusion Energi to cooperate when it had a flat 12V battery. There just wasn't enough power, it seemed. I never tried a different unit or anything - I just took it as a hint.

Some 12v batteries fail in such a way that jump starting isnt possible no matter what size the source power is coming from. In those cases you have to physically disconnect the cables and jump the vehicle cable to cable.
Can't say I would attempt that on an EV though....maybe, if there wasnt any other choice.
??

I did jump start my brothers Focus Electric with that pack. It worked well. It was actually at the dealership where he bought it so we jump started it and drove around to the garage where they replaced the battery before he left the lot.

Never tried it on our Energi... ...maybe it needs more amps for some reason?

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

Never tried it on our Energi... ...maybe it needs more amps for some reason?

?‍

 

[kdryden99]

The thing is with ice the alternator provide anywhere from 120amps to 160amps to the 12v which we dont have on an EV. A lot of the more modern cars boosting is not recommended because you might damage the ecu, voltage regulator or other more sophisticated electrical devices that they didnt have on older cars. With an EV id be scared to blow the inverter or other voltage regulating devices and the lack of an alternator means your ev system will rely heavily on your drive battery to charge the 12v while boosting.

 

[kdryden99]

Also before anybody asks. It is not recommended to use standard lead acid batteries because of all the electrical devices on the car plus the high charge discharge rate. You are better off with an AGM 12v battery

 

[SnBGC]

Also before anybody asks. It is not recommended to use standard lead acid batteries because of all the electrical devices on the car plus the high charge discharge rate. You are better off with an AGM 12v battery

The charge and discharge rate is very low compared to an ICE. Traditional battery is fine. That is probably what it ships with anyway...

 

[kdryden99]

The charge and discharge rate is very low compared to an ICE. Traditional battery is fine. That is probably what it ships with anyway...

From What I read Teslas come with a Lithium 12v.

Via Teslarati " The 12V load while in the off-state is often much higher due to advanced computer systems that are running to maintain the high-voltage battery, keep vehicle “connected” (all EV have some remote access features), maintain charging and BMS (Battery Management System) communications, etc. In fact a Tesla Model S/X puts about 50 Watts of load on the 12V system when the vehicle is in the “off” state. 50 Watts equals about 4.5 Amps of discharge on the 12V battery, this drains the battery down relatively rapidly and requires the 12V battery be “recharged” by the high-voltage battery regularly, this usage pattern results in many cycles being placed on the battery.

When you combine the high number of cycles and the low current requirements of the electric vehicle 12V battery system you arrive at a completely different battery need than that of an ICE vehicle. Lead Acid batteries are very good at high discharge and low cycle count life-styles, this is their bread and butter and this is where they last a long time and provide the most bang for the buck (cheap cost and decent product life-cycle), but they aren’t lasting in electric vehicles.


The electric vehicle 12V battery system is one that is best suited by a battery capable of tremendous cycle-life as the main design goal. The battery chemistry that suits this usage scenario best? Lithium! Lithium battery technology is specifically very good at being cycled many times and continuing to provide minimal capacity loss and degradation. This, along with reduced weight, is why these batteries are used for the high-voltage battery packs, cell-phones, laptops, medical equipment and cars where batteries are being cycled frequently and longevity is important."

I assume its the same with the Mach E. Especailly with the lower resistance it'll help the inverter charge the 12V much quicker. If the Li-Ion is too expensive the next best thing is the AGM.
https://www.teslarati.com/why-tesla-12v-battery-needs-to-be-lithium-ion/

 

[sockmeister]

Okay, thanks. I wonder what the other symbols for for?

The second icon from the left looks like a fuse. The fusebox might be near the battery under that shroud, as well.

 

[darren]

since the pandemic I have purchased a battery conditioner for my 12V battery.
I am guessing I wouldn’t need to do this for EV since the car can detect the voltage on the 12V and charge it using it main battery pack.
I would think they have to do this so that the car can be connected to 4G all the time.

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