LFP battery vs. NCM

[GatorGrowl]

I wouldn’t get too hung up on range unless you’re going to be in cold weather a lot, drive a lot of miles per day, or can’t charge at home.

The XR NCM pack gives you more peak power. The SR LFP pack is more durable. Both are Lithium Ion. You don’t want to regularly charge either above 90%, or drain them below 10%. Occasionally is fine, just not daily.

What you’re looking at long term is:
All battery packs lose 1-2% of their capacity each year. Charging above 90% (or draining below 10%) will skew you closer toward the 2%. The LFP packs will skew *less*, but both will go that way. The closer you keep your average state of charge to 50%, the slower the battery will degrade.

Honestly the choice between AWD and RWD has a lot more impact on the MME ownership experience than the battery pack, IMHO. If you drive like 40 miles a day and charge at home at night , range isn’t going to be that big a deal.

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[RickMachE]

Let's be real about quoting ranges. The reality is:

- Any of the ranges quoted by the manufacturers are EPA range, not real world
- The Guess-O-Meter range is not a real range
- Highway driving yields a lower range than local driving. At 73 or so mph, you'll get around 2.8 - 2.9. With a 70kWh battery, that's 196 - 203. With an ER 91kWh battery that's 255 - 264.

BUT, that's BS, because you only go from 100% on the first leg (or at a hotel stay), not DC fast charging. And no one goes down to 0%. The real highway range is from 80% down to 20% and back up to 80%, or 60% of the numbers above. So an SR's distance between chargers on the highway is 196 x 60% or 118 miles. An ER is 255 x 60% or 153 miles.

Sure, in perfect conditions maybe you get 3.0. Or, you drive 65mph and get 3.2 or 3.3.

Last month we did a 4,708 mile trip over 14 days to 8 national parks across 10 states. So please, stop the "can't go on long distance trip" stuff.

 

[GatorGrowl]

Central Florida has the benefit of a *lot* of DCFC stops, though most aren’t part of the big shared payment networks.
I wouldn’t plan on a long trip in a MME - at least not out of state. In state (I’m also in FL) there are a lot of reliable DCFC stops on all the major roads. The state has a federal grant to put at least eight 150kw+ stations every 60 miles on the hurricane evacuation routes.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

Let's be real about quoting ranges. The reality is:

- Any of the ranges quoted by the manufacturers are EPA range, not real world
- The Guess-O-Meter range is not a real range
- Highway driving yields a lower range than local driving. At 73 or so mph, you'll get around 2.8 - 2.9. With a 70kWh battery, that's 196 - 203. With an ER 91kWh battery that's 255 - 264.

BUT, that's BS, because you only go from 100% on the first leg (or at a hotel stay), not DC fast charging. And no one goes down to 0%. The real highway range is from 80% down to 20% and back up to 80%, or 60% of the numbers above. So an SR's distance between chargers on the highway is 196 x 60% or 118 miles. An ER is 255 x 60% or 153 miles.

Sure, in perfect conditions maybe you get 3.0. Or, you drive 65mph and get 3.2 or 3.3.

Last month we did a 4,708 mile trip over 14 days to 8 national parks across 10 states. So please, stop the "can't go on long distance trip" stuff.

This is the right way to look at it. I would only add that with battery deterioration and cold weather, an SR vehicle is an in-town car not suitable for trips. It is supposed to be advantageous for Ford (read cheaper), not to you!

 

[jay1122]

My advice is to look at your typical use. If you regularly commute or travel close to the actual real world use range. I would recommend going to ER to be safe. Cold climate winter I would give the EPA range a 70% cut based on past experience. if you frequently travel 150-170 miles per day. I would recommend ER. Otherwise just do SR to save the money. For rare long distance trips, Just use the DC charge station.

 

[bshaw]

Let's be real about quoting ranges. The reality is:

- Any of the ranges quoted by the manufacturers are EPA range, not real world
- The Guess-O-Meter range is not a real range
- Highway driving yields a lower range than local driving. At 73 or so mph, you'll get around 2.8 - 2.9. With a 70kWh battery, that's 196 - 203. With an ER 91kWh battery that's 255 - 264.

BUT, that's BS, because you only go from 100% on the first leg (or at a hotel stay), not DC fast charging. And no one goes down to 0%. The real highway range is from 80% down to 20% and back up to 80%, or 60% of the numbers above. So an SR's distance between chargers on the highway is 196 x 60% or 118 miles. An ER is 255 x 60% or 153 miles.

Sure, in perfect conditions maybe you get 3.0. Or, you drive 65mph and get 3.2 or 3.3.

Last month we did a 4,708 mile trip over 14 days to 8 national parks across 10 states. So please, stop the "can't go on long distance trip" stuff.

Excellent way to break it down.

The only thing I would add is -- I believe there are 2 separate charging cliffs for DCFC.
One slowdown at 80%, and then another at 90% that is even slower.

You aren't gonna want to be on DCFC past 90%, but if you really need that range, you can hang around to close the gap between 80-90%. Assuming there aren't other people waiting for your station of course.

 

[RickMachE]

Excellent way to break it down.

The only thing I would add is -- I believe there are 2 separate charging cliffs for DCFC.
One slowdown at 80%, and then another at 90% that is even slower.

You aren't gonna want to be on DCFC past 90%, but if you really need that range, you can hang around to close the gap between 80-90%. Assuming there aren't other people waiting for your station of course.

Correct. From 80 to 90% with the ER battery is around 44kW. At 94% it slows to 6kW. I haven't stared at it from 90 to 94%.

 

[Mirak]

LFP battery = charge to 100% = 250 mile range
Extended Range battery 320 mile range, BUT recommended max 80% charge = 256 miles
Seems pretty close to me. What am I missing except for $7k?

You’re missing the fact that:

1. Maximum Range only matters for road trips.
2. When taking road trips, it is best to charge to 100% at the outset.
3. Charging to 100% occasionally is not gonna hurt your NMC battery, but it’s gonna give you materially more range for the first leg of a road trip than a standard pack.

So it depends on your use case. If you don’t plan to road trip except in very rare instances, then by all means save your money on the standard range.

But don’t rule out the benefit of that additional range based on a max charging recommendation.

 

[dtbaker61]

Considering an MME premium with choice of standard range vs extended. Are LFP batteries better because you can actually charge to 100%. Plus standard range LFP are $7k less than extended range. Help me decide

LFP is a safer chemistry and format than Li-on. It has a better safety record regarding thermal runaway, and the results are usually spitting out black goo rather than bursting into flames if the internal BMS and cell balancing charge cutoff fails and a cell over-charges.

regarding range.... really look at your 90% use pattern. Do you often drive more than 150 miles in one day? If you do, get the ER, if not then save weight and money with the SR.

 

[Deleted member 16048]

LFP is a safer chemistry and format than Li-on. It has a better safety record regarding thermal runaway, and the results are usually spitting out black goo rather than bursting into flames if the internal BMS and cell balancing charge cutoff fails and a cell over-charges.

regarding range.... really look at your 90% use pattern. Do you often drive more than 150 miles in one day? If you do, get the ER, if not then save weight and money with the SR.

This is what I considered when I purchased my 2022. I went with SR due to my daily usage. Road trips I can deal with one or maybe two extra charging stops. I like my breaks when driving anyways otherwise I get too bored, tired or annoying to my partner. lol

 

[superdave80]

Thank you for the input. This is certainly a learning curve. I don’t see the benefit of ER for $7k as I will mainly use for local driving in Central Florida. Maybe one long trip per year which I’ll have to plan out.

I have SR battery, do about one long DC charging trip per month, and STILL have never thought, 'Dang, I wish I had bought the ER battery!' Save your money.

 

[Mach1E]

Considering an MME premium with choice of standard range vs extended. Are LFP batteries better because you can actually charge to 100%. Plus standard range LFP are $7k less than extended range. Help me decide

The part that’s missing is performance.

Is it worth an extra $7k? Depends on you.

Are you the kinda shopper that prefers the value of a base model, or the kind that pays extra for a GT or similar more powerful car?

Range only matters if you use it.

I’ve had my GTPE for over 2 years.
I have never done a road trip (and don’t plan to). Never DC charged (and don’t plan to). Never been below 45% charge (and don’t plan to).

But I use every horsepower frequently.

 

[Mirak]

The standard range AWD was just too short on range. The extended range RWD drive was too sluggish. To me, the only conceivable options were the standard RWD, or the extended AWD. It was go big or go small. I went big and have no regerts.

 

[superdave80]

The part that’s missing is performance.

Does the ER battery give you more acceleration?

 

[MacherAWD]

Is the SR less likely to be affected by the HVBJB issues?

what is your range at 100%?

My 21 is 220 miles, that's accurate at 70mph on highway, I have AWD so less than RWD

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