DBC

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The Rivian network is not going to be proprietary in the same way Tesla's is. The proprietary chargers will be higher power DC chargers located more in wilderness areas. The AC chargers located in more populated areas will be open.

My guess is that one issue is the DC chargers may have to rely on solar given their locations, which may be off-grid. This means there will be a limited amount of power available. The AC chargers will likely be connected to the grid so the limit is number of plugs not a limited supply of power.

In the end, the Tesla stans are still pretty upset and saying we didn't give a chance and didn't spend enough time in the car.
I just think that they've gotten used to there not being anything that competes well with a Tesla, so they are having a hard time getting their heads around the fact that the MME is superior.
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The Rivian network is not going to be proprietary in the same way Tesla's is. The proprietary chargers will be higher power DC chargers located more in wilderness areas. The AC chargers located in more populated areas will be open.

My guess is that one issue is the DC chargers may have to rely on solar given their locations, which may be off-grid. This means there will be a limited amount of power available. The AC chargers will likely be connected to the grid so the limit is number of plugs not a limited supply of power.
From what I read it is basically the reverse. At the more remote locations will be lower powered "destination chargers." They have also committed to making those open to everyone, at least here in Colorado. They plan on putting at least two Level 2 chargers in every state park and anyone can use them. Their high-powered DCFC will be along interstates and major highways. They will use CCS connectors but will only allow Rivians to charge, but they said they would be open to others using those stations "in the future."
 

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From what I read it is basically the reverse. At the more remote locations will be lower powered "destination chargers." They have also committed to making those open to everyone, at least here in Colorado. They plan on putting at least two Level 2 chargers in every state park and anyone can use them. Their high-powered DCFC will be along interstates and major highways. They will use CCS connectors but will only allow Rivians to charge, but they said they would be open to others using those stations "in the future."
That'll be interesting, I imagine it'll be awhile before we see a Level 2 charger at like Paonia State Park, Crawford State Park, etc..
 
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Mach-E VLOG

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That'll be interesting, I imagine it'll be awhile before we see a Level 2 charger at like Paonia State Park, Crawford State Park, etc..
I hope the National Park Service does the same thing. I was reading a while back about a company that wanted to bring a hybrid Level-2 & DCFC to remote locations. It would be a Level 2 charger connected to some big batteries. When the batteries were full, they could give you several DC fast charges depending on the car. When the batteries depleted it would revert back to Level 2 and use any downtime to recharge the batteries. They were talking about ways to limit the DC charges so one person could pull up and use the whole battery charge -- like allow a maximum of 15 or 20 kWh per vehicle.

Interesting stuff is coming. And I think EA has deployed a few solar based chargers.
 

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Haha... If you check on YouTube, this video now has more 'dislikes' than any video I have released.

? ? ?
Sorry to hear that. Can’t people at least accept different points of view?
 


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We normally do quite a bit shorter. Some YouTubers get paid more for long videos, but I disable the mid-stream ads on purpose.

We felt this one had to be long to sorta prove that we gave the Y serious consideration, give details and examples that proved our points, etc. It was actually a pain to make (took a couple weeks of editing). A shorter one would have been way easier.

In the end, the Tesla stans are still pretty upset and saying we didn't give a chance and didn't spend enough time in the car.

Oh well.
I’ll start by saying I despise YouTube videos and NEVER watch them. Now that I have that out of the way, I REALLY like your videos and look forward to them. They’re put together in a nice, simple, straightforward manner, without the excessive bling/overproduction so many YouTube videos have. The only other videos I’ve found so far that I like are the engineering explained series. Please keep up the great work! ?
 

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Last month we rented a Model Y for a few days. We drove it all around and compared it to our Mustang Mach-E. There were a lot of things we liked about the Model Y and quite a few things we didn't. Check it out in the video below. (It's quite long!)
Thanks for the review - I can tell you're both itching to get back into your own EV. I hope you get it back soon.
 
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Thanks for the review - I can tell you're both itching to get back into your own EV. I hope you get it back soon.
We are really anxious to get back in our Mach-E. When we filmed that Model Y video is was the weekend after the accident. It was hard to even get up the energy to even go drive the Model Y. I was just pissed off about our Mach-E. But we tried to appreciate the Model Y -- as much as we could. LOL

The latest I heard yesterday is that one part is still missing. It could be just a few more days or it could be a couple more weeks. I don't know right now.

I know Patrick and Liv won't do this, so I'll do it. Make sure you take a moment to like and write a comment. It doesn't cost you anything and helps reach more Tesla fans to piss them off.
Thanks so much for this and to anyone that does go 'Like' the video or comment. It does really make it extra fun to get that positive feedback after hours of filming and editing. The Tesla fans are sorta swamping the YouTube comments right now, but that's OK. What they don't realize is that YouTube loves promoting videos that get any interaction. So by them posting negative comments they are actually helping the video to spread even more. HAHAHA


I’ll start by saying I despise YouTube videos and NEVER watch them. Now that I have that out of the way, I REALLY like your videos and look forward to them. They’re put together in a nice, simple, straightforward manner, without the excessive bling/overproduction so many YouTube videos have. The only other videos I’ve found so far that I like are the engineering explained series. Please keep up the great work! ?
Aw, thanks! We'll try to remember to keep things simple even as we get better at making videos! (And we'll try to keep them shorter!)
 

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Thx for the post. Very instructive. Looks are far more important than the TSLA crowd will admit. Ignore 'em.

The Y is just a weird mobile to me, something only the mother could love. Looks dated already.

The Mach-E is really attractive looking. Maybe the Audi EV's are in the same ballpark, but that is a cool thing in itself as the Audi's start $20,000 higher.

In my area as well CCS locations have quickly overtaken the TSLA charge network, even if many are 50kw. I think it is a solid point that we should discourage proprietary networks like TSLA. For EV's to advance there needs to be a single network and we should only support companies with open networks, through the trials and tribulations, we are improving the network regular folks need eventually.
 
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I know Patrick and Liv won't do this, so I'll do it. Make sure you take a moment to like and write a comment. It doesn't cost you anything and helps reach more Tesla fans to piss them off.
Aw man thank you ? We've been going through and "delicately" clapping back pretty consistently but its hella heart-warming to see the positivity sprinkled in there ?

I’ll start by saying I despise YouTube videos and NEVER watch them. Now that I have that out of the way, I REALLY like your videos and look forward to them. They’re put together in a nice, simple, straightforward manner, without the excessive bling/overproduction so many YouTube videos have. The only other videos I’ve found so far that I like are the engineering explained series. Please keep up the great work! ?
I can't tell you how nice this was to read! We're really trying to be authentic and straight-forward (if a little goofy at times) so it's so nice to hear that they're well received. Also I'm a huge fan of Engineering Explained too ?

Thanks everyone for all the awesome input and support! ?

Oh and @theo1000 I almost want to make a t shirt for the Model Y that has its picture with "something only a mother could love" underneath....that made me laugh out loud!
But yeah....I value my safety...so that will just stay in the imagination haha
 

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From what I read it is basically the reverse. At the more remote locations will be lower powered "destination chargers."
I may have misread the release. You are right that the AC "Waypoint" chargers are the ones Rivian is putting in at the Colorado State Parks and presumably other parks. What thew me off were these statements: "Connecting cities on popular routes across the US and Canada, the network also extends further into more remote destinations ... California’s Hwy 395. The entire Blue Ridge Parkway from Shenandoah National Park down to Great Smoky Mountains National Park."

Definitely different than the usual placement of DC chargers along interstates.

Also as I read the release more carefully it says that the sites will be powered by wind and solar -- which I initially read as off-grid -- but that could be through a grid system which was powered by renewables.

I'd be interested in a Rivian, the SUV looks like a cute Range Rover to me, but for the fact it wouldn't fit in my garage. We don't go off roading that much, but it would be convenient sometimes. And the range, cargo space, and 350 kW charging would be great for road trips.

The Rivian SUV is a unique vehicle. The only direct competitor is the Hummer SUV (and neither one is released of course).
 
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I may have misread the release. You are right that the AC "Waypoint" chargers are the ones Rivian is putting in at the Colorado State Parks and presumably other parks. What thew me off were these statements: "Connecting cities on popular routes across the US and Canada, the network also extends further into more remote destinations ... California’s Hwy 395. The entire Blue Ridge Parkway from Shenandoah National Park down to Great Smoky Mountains National Park."

Definitely different than the usual placement of DC chargers along interstates.

Also as I read the release more carefully it says that the sites will be powered by wind and solar -- which I initially read as off-grid -- but that could be through a grid system which was powered by renewables.

I'd be interested in a Rivian, the SUV looks like a cute Range Rover to me, but for the fact it wouldn't fit in my garage. We don't go off roading that much, but it would be convenient sometimes. And the range, cargo space, and 350 kW charging would be great for road trips.

The Rivian SUV is a unique vehicle. The only direct competitor is the Hummer SUV (and neither one is released of course).
@Liv was also interested in the Rivian SUV until I told her the size. It definitely won't fit in our garage.
 
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In case you don't want to watch the video, here are some of my thoughts:

Positives:
  1. It's quick - It was an AWD Long Range. It feels quick. I didn't do any official tests, but it feels as quick as the Mach-E.
  2. AutoPilot - It was just basic AutoPilot, but it works well for the most part. It handled some curves that I think the Mach-E wouldn't.
  3. Charging integration into navigation - They place a heavy emphasis on showing you where SuperChargers are. It may be a little too much, but I wish the Mach-E favored the 150kW+ chargers more.
  4. Glass roof - It was more expansive than the Mach-E.
  5. Streaming video on Infotainment screen - I didn't think I would care at all about that, but we actually did use it to watch a concert livestream on Twitch.

Negatives:
  1. Looks - First of all, much about why we like a car is how it looks. To me, the Tesla Model Y is just plain ugly. I think it looks like a bloated Model 3 and the Model 3 looks plain to me. Others have said it looks like a catfish. I also don’t like how paint colors are so expensive. Black or blue are $1,000 and red is $2,000.
  2. Road Noise - The first time I drove a Tesla Model Y, I was surprised how quiet it was. But I was coming from a loud Subaru WRX. Now, after driving a Mustang Mach-E for a month, the Model Y is a lot noisier at freeway speeds.
  3. Ride quality - The ride quality isn’t horrible in the Model Y, but I think the Mach-E is just better. The Model Y felt like a heavy SUV or van. The Mach-E feels like a sporty crossover.
  4. Build Quality - I know, I know. Everyone talks about Tesla’s build quality and they swear it has gotten better. But in the Model Y’s I drove, there were gaps & misalignments inside and out. I also heard a few rattles and squeaks that would bug me if I owned the car. So far, the Mach-E has been really solid and everything is lined up perfectly.
  5. Lack of parking features - I am quite surprised that the Model Y doesn’t have a 360 camera for parking. I use this feature all the time on the Mach-E. Not only does it help to get into a tight garage, but it helps me line up perfectly in a parking space without getting too close to the curb. The Mach-E also includes an automated parallel parking and perpendicular parking assistant. This is available on the Model Y as part of the $10,000 Full Self Driving software package.
  6. Interface - Nearly every reviewer talks about how nice the Tesla interface is on the big center screen in the Model Y. After using both, I can tell you the Mach-E is the better interface for the driver. First of all, the Tesla lacks a driver’s screen with essential information like speed, navigation instructions, and battery percentage. People will argue that it isn’t necessary or this is “the future.” If that is so, why is it included on the higher end Model S and Model X? I believe it was excluded from the 3 and Y as a cost cutting measure.
    The Mach-E’s interface is also a lot easier to use while driving. Tesla’s interface looks good and screenshots and would be nice if you were sitting at a desk. But you are not. You are using these interfaces while driving 75 mph on a freeway. The Mach-E’s design with larger fonts and the use of color makes it easier and safer to use for the driver.
    In addition, the Mach-E provides easy access to things like air vents without having to use the touch screen. The Model Y design chooses form over functionality and it shows.
    The interface is also missing the ability to connect to Android Auto or Apple CarPlay. Our phones have become our primary data source and being able to connect seamlessly with my phone is a huge advantage for the Mach-E. It also opens up many options for music sources, maps, and messaging that are just unavailable in the proprietary Tesla system.
    Another area that is lacking is the voice control system. First, you are only given access to the built in Tesla system. With the Mach-E, you can use the Ford system, Google Assistant, or Apple Siri. The Mach-E will also respond to hot words, so you don’t need to press a button. I also discovered that Tesla’s voice commands don’t work without cellular data connection. That sounds like no big deal unless you are in the mountains of Colorado or an underground parking garage. Then it becomes an issue.
  7. Lack of service centers - Tesla owners like to criticize Ford’s reliance on their dealer network, but they forget that those dealers are also service centers. Tesla has only 120 service centers while Ford has 2,100 certified EV dealers. You may think that it doesn’t matter but when you need them to address one of those rattles or squeaks, it could mean a lengthy trip to a service center. Yes, they also have a mobile service, but that is no replacement for a full auto shop.
  8. Interior - We all know the Tesla interior strives for simplicity. If you like that, great. But I think the cabin feels soulless. It also feels a bit cheap. I don’t think they coordinated the materials well. I really dislike the cheap looking wood bar that stretches across the cabin.
    The simplicity also means it is missing the handles above the door. Some people might think they are only for someone to hold onto while going around corners. But they are also essential to help people with mobility issues while getting in and out of the vehicle.
    I also didn’t like the seats in the Model Y. First of all they were too firm. I couldn’t get comfortable and that also made the seats squeak more. I was also surprised to find out that the headrests were not adjustable which could affect the comfort of the seat for many but also affect the safety in preventing whiplash.
  9. Door handles - I didn’t like the outside or inside door handles. The outside handles look because they are flush with the body of the car. But they are actually a pain to use - especially if you have dexterity issues or your hands are full. You have to press in the rear of the handle while pulling the front of the handle. It is an awkward movement where once again Tesla chose form over functionality.
    The inside handle is actually just a push button that controls an electronic lock. It opens slightly and you push the door open. No big deal right? But there is also a manual handle that is pretty much where you would normally expect a door handle to be. If you are used to it, you won’t pull the handle. But you have to explain to every passenger how to correctly open the door. If they forget, it will open but will potentially damage the seal or the door glass.
  10. Range and charging - This one might surprise a lot of people. Yes, Tesla currently has a great SuperCharger network and the highest EPA estimated range. But let’s look at that a little closer.
    First of all, the CCS network is catching up fast and beats Tesla in many places. Just around here in Colorado, there are more CCS chargers than Tesla SuperChargers. There is a ton of money being invested in the CCS platform that will be used by every manufacturer that isn’t Tesla.I’m willing to bet that over the time I own my Mach-E the CCS network will surpass the Tesla network.
    I should also mention that I dislike proprietary systems. Tesla decided to go with a proprietary plug on their cars to make it a selling point. On European Teslas, they now come with a CCS charging port. Tesla could do the same for their US cars and make their SuperChargers compatible with CCS but they haven’t.
    So what about range? The Model Y Long Range has an EPA estimated range of 326 miles and the Mach-E AWD Extended range is 270 miles. Seems like Tesla is the clear winner right? Not so fast. So far, in real world testing, it looks like the Mach-E exceeds its EPA estimate while the Model Y (like all Teslas) falls short. There have been several head-to-head tests where the Mach-E outperforms the Model Y range.
man you two got so much of free time. damm.
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