Mach-E Will Charge 30% Faster Than Earlier Estimates Announces Ford

[Billyk24]

You've used this "2 minutes" number a few times. It's not clear to me that is a realistic number to fill up a gas tank from 1/8 or less.

I put 15 gallons into my Outback's tank earlier this week from my local Shell Station and timed it from the second I unlocked the door to exit the vehicle to when I sat back down and closed the door. 4 minutes 30 seconds flat.

That time includes authorizing my credit card on the card reader, setting the nozzle for maximum flow rate and emptying out the trash in my car while pumping. I do 1-2 extra clicks of the pump handle before putting it back and collecting my receipt.

Add in activities like squeegee the windshield on a road trip plus a nature break inside the station and 2 minutes just sounds absurd.

I checked online resources and cannot easily find how long people usually take at a filling station. DOT says max flow rate from a dispenser is limited to 10gal/min but most consumer pumps are half that rate.

Not all of us drain the gas tank and the fill up completely. This is especially true in true winter areas where adding 3 gallons to you two third filled tank is wise for emergency purposes. We get your point. I m typing on my phone at the state park while sitting in my car adding charge to my PHEV.

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[dbsb3233]

You've used this "2 minutes" number a few times. It's not clear to me that is a realistic number to fill up a gas tank from 1/8 or less.

I put 15 gallons into my Outback's tank earlier this week from my local Shell Station and timed it from the second I unlocked the door to exit the vehicle to when I sat back down and closed the door. 4 minutes 30 seconds flat.

That time includes authorizing my credit card on the card reader, setting the nozzle for maximum flow rate and emptying out the trash in my car while pumping. I do 1-2 extra clicks of the pump handle before putting it back and collecting my receipt.

Add in activities like squeegee the windshield on a road trip plus a nature break inside the station and 2 minutes just sounds absurd.

I checked online resources and cannot easily find how long people usually take at a filling station. DOT says max flow rate from a dispenser is limited to 10gal/min but most consumer pumps are half that rate.

It depends on the context. When we talk about EV charging times, we rarely add on the payment process time to that either. Or the extra time it takes you off your direct route to get to and from the charger. We usually only talk about the actual charging time, so I often refer to just the gas fuel times when comparing the two. I don't know if that's closer to 2 minutes or 3 minutes. It's just a ballpark estimate. Maybe it is closer to 3, but I'm not really concerned about being off by a minute.

But yes, we should add probably 2 extra minutes to BOTH types of refueling to account for the payment process, lifting the nozzle and inserting it, pressing the start button, etc.

And yes, some refuel stops include other stuff like eating, going to the bathroom, cleaning the windshield, etc. Local refuels usually don't, but road trip refuels often include some of that. We'd continue to do one meal stop, but certainly not at every recharge stop. All those variables really just depend on how long the road trip is, whether one is a frequent stopper vs a "just get there" person, etc. There's some extraneous time that can be offset by double-dipping with long recharging stops (relative to fast gas refuels). But typically only some. For my typical road trip route, driving a BEV would cost me at least an extra 2 hours of lost time compared to ICE driving. But for someone that normally stops frequently anyway, the gap won't be as big.

 

[eager2own]

On a side note, I found a big drawback in driving my Fiat 500e (which I only charged at home) was that my windshield would be filthy, because I no longer cleaned it at gas stations.
Just one of those random things you realize when switching to a BEV.

 

[dbsb3233]

On a side note, I found a big drawback in driving my Fiat 500e (which I only charged at home) was that my windshield would be filthy, because I no longer cleaned it at gas stations.
Just one of those random things you realize when switching to a BEV.

Ha, that's interesting. Funny how little things end up making a difference.

I've been doing most my refuels at Costco and Sam's Club for years, where they don't have windshield washing stuff. I've gotten out of the habit so much that I forget to do it when I do stop at a regular gas station now.

 

[silverelan]

@dbsb3233, my apologies in advance if this is off-base and perhaps I'm completely wrong, but my impression is that you are overestimating the amount of time required to recharge and underestimating the time to refuel. On top of that you also do not factor in the nature breaks and food stops that normally come into play over a 500 mile journey for a typical person.

So whether it's deliberate or unintentional, the net effect is that there appears to be a mischaracterization of the recharging experience on a long range EV while simultaneously overselling how much faster a fossil car can go over the same distance.

 

[dbsb3233]

@dbsb3233, my apologies in advance if this is off-base and perhaps I'm completely wrong, but my impression is that you are overestimating the amount of time required to recharge and underestimating the time to refuel. On top of that you also do not factor in the nature breaks and food stops that normally come into play over a 500 mile journey for a typical person.

So whether it's deliberate or unintentional, the net effect is that there appears to be a mischaracterization of the recharging experience on a long range EV while simultaneously overselling how much faster a fossil car can go over the same distance.

Or perhaps we just have different opinions of what we think is typical.

I've been the one acknowledging that there are a variety of drivers ranging between "just get there" and "take their time". Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but you seem to be suggesting it's nearly all the latter. I disagree. I think there's a lot of both, and various points in between.

I use ABRP for a lot of my sample look-ups. I was actually understating the extra time Mach-e would take for the 785 mile trip we occasionally take. ABRP shows over 15 hours, when I know we do it regularly in 12 in ICE. But that's in part because one key EA station isn't open yet. That'll improve a little, but the total charging time will still be over 2.5 hours. Plus an extra 20 minutes to get to/from one of the chargers that's 10 minutes off the interstate. In total it takes about 3 hours of charging stop/detour.

When we drive it in an ICE vehicle, we stop twice. One is about a 30-40 minute gas+sandwich+piss stop, the other about a 10 minute gas+piss stop. That's it. That's more than 2 hours faster than the BEV time.

Is that the same for everyone? No, some like to take their time. But it's not highly unusal either. Neither are the practical realities of BEV charging. Some chargers aren't right off the interstate. And all chargers are way slower than gas. We can't avoid the fact that takes multiple hours to refuel 200+ kWh's of electricity, even on L3.

 

[JamieGeek]

Keep in mind that the Mach-E is supposed to support that plugin and charge standard--as such there won't be any authorization time or time fiddling with your phone trying to enable the charger. Just plug it in and it starts to charge (well so the marketing says).

 

[zhackwyatt]

When we drive it in an ICE vehicle, we stop twice. One is about a 30-40 minute gas+sandwich+piss stop, the other about a 10 minute gas+piss stop. That's it. That's more than 2 hours faster than the BEV time.

Off Topic
I had a friend pass away from a blood clot because he was driving too long without stopping and moving around. He got up out of the car and fell right back in. Died immediately. He was in his 70's. Something to be aware of.

Back to the regularly schedule programming.

 

[Billyk24]

Off Topic
I had a friend pass away from a blood clot because he was driving too long without stopping and moving around. He got up out of the car and fell right back in. Died immediately. He was in his 70's. Something to be aware of.

Back to the regularly schedule programming.

compression socks can be utilized to minimize such.

 

[dbsb3233]

Off Topic
I had a friend pass away from a blood clot because he was driving too long without stopping and moving around. He got up out of the car and fell right back in. Died immediately. He was in his 70's. Something to be aware of.

Back to the regularly schedule programming.

We fly quite a bit too, and that's one of the things we're always cognizant of on long flights. In March we were on a flight back from Mumbai to Newark (17 hours in one leg) before connecting to our Denver flight. (We were on a cruise from Dubai to Singapore that got cut short because of the virus.)

Sometimes we'll wear compression socks for the long flights, but we do make sure to get up every 4 hours or so to stretch. That long in the car we're OK with, but it also depends on the seats. Hoping the Mach-e seats are pretty good.

 

[timbop]

whether @dbsb3233 is off by a few minutes doesn't matter in this context - 3 minutes vs 25 or 6 minutes vs 25 still leans heavily in favor of the smaller number of the ICE, particularly when there will likely also be roughly half as many stops to fill the ICE.

In an absolute sense BEV charging takes longer and requires more stopping. Whether that is detrimental or not depends completely on one's perspective. Subjectively he thinks it's too long, while others of us are willing to take it a little slower by working in longer food and nature breaks. I for one would welcome half an hour to eat lunch or 45 minutes to eat dinner at a "decent" place versus stuffing a burger down my throat and getting back on the road in 15, but that's me. I have a bad back and cantankerous knee and hate to sit in one position for hours, so to me stopping is an opportunity.

You guys can keep arguing about it, but nobody is going to change his/her minds.

 

[ChasingCoral]

On a side note, I found a big drawback in driving my Fiat 500e (which I only charged at home) was that my windshield would be filthy, because I no longer cleaned it at gas stations.
Just one of those random things you realize when switching to a BEV.

You can get a bucket and a squeegee for about $10 and keep it in your garage

 

[ChasingCoral]

Keep in mind that the Mach-E is supposed to support that plugin and charge standard--as such there won't be any authorization time or time fiddling with your phone trying to enable the charger. Just plug it in and it starts to charge (well so the marketing says).

Agreed. That completely eliminates the whole charge authorization time.

 

[EVer]

Not all of us drain the gas tank and the fill up completely. This is especially true in true winter areas where adding 3 gallons to you two third filled tank is wise for emergency purposes. We get your point. I m typing on my phone at the state park while sitting in my car adding charge to my PHEV.

Unless driving a long distance, I never let mine get below ~1/2.

 

[silverelan]

whether @dbsb3233 is off by a few minutes doesn't matter in this context - 3 minutes vs 25 or 6 minutes vs 25 still leans heavily in favor of the smaller number of the ICE, particularly when there will likely also be roughly half as many stops to fill the ICE.

In an absolute sense BEV charging takes longer and requires more stopping. Whether that is detrimental or not depends completely on one's perspective. Subjectively he thinks it's too long, while others of us are willing to take it a little slower by working in longer food and nature breaks. I for one would welcome half an hour to eat lunch or 45 minutes to eat dinner at a "decent" place versus stuffing a burger down my throat and getting back on the road in 15, but that's me. I have a bad back and cantankerous knee and hate to sit in one position for hours, so to me stopping is an opportunity.

You guys can keep arguing about it, but nobody is going to change his/her minds.

Yup. Over 500 miles, it can be 75-90 mins of stoppage in the MME vs. 15-45 mins in the fossil car. There's certainly going to be a time penalty but I'm not convinced that 2+ hours over an 8-9 hour drive is at all accurate.

For those that are truly ambitious, one can always do the Bjorn-style cannonballing and knock out a 620mi drive in as little as ten hours.

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