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dbsb3233

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And lots of mountains. Yes, you regain a lot in the downhills and braking but probably only 60-70% so lots of elevation changes will result in at least another 30% range loss even with a net zero elevation change.
30% range loss on a hilly route with a net zero elevation change??? Really? I have no experience with it but that just sounds WAY more than I'd expect.

I was expecting almost no difference at a net zero elevation difference between start and end UNLESS there's steep enough grades where you use regen. And on 65+ MPH interstates, that usually requires steep grades (i.e. where the car coasts faster than your speed and needs to be slowed down). I wouldn't expect much of that on I-70 through PA. Even in CO I was expecting <10% loss on a net zero elevation difference (above and beyond speed and temp losses).
 

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30% range loss on a hilly route with a net zero elevation change??? Really? I have no experience with it but that just sounds WAY more than I'd expect.

I was expecting almost no difference at a net zero elevation difference between start and end UNLESS there's steep enough grades where you use regen. And on 65+ MPH interstates, that usually requires steep grades (i.e. where the car coasts faster than your speed and needs to be slowed down). I wouldn't expect much of that on I-70 through PA. Even in CO I was expecting <10% loss on a net zero elevation difference (above and beyond speed and temp losses).
I agree with you on CO interstate grades. I would expect to see losses on curvy, slow speed ups and downs like they have in PA. CO too for roads like Berthoud Pass, Loveland Pass, Trail Ridge Road, etc. Regeneration isn't 100% efficient plus you lose some in battery charging. IIRC it's about 60-70% overall efficiency.
 

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I agree with you on CO interstate grades. I would expect to see losses on curvy, slow speed ups and downs like they have in PA. CO too for roads like Berthoud Pass, Loveland Pass, Trail Ridge Road, etc. Regeneration isn't 100% efficient plus you lose some in battery charging. IIRC it's about 60-70% overall efficiency.
But 60-70% efficiency is just referring to the seconds that you're regenning, right? (Slowing the car down from it's existing coasting momentum.)

That usually doesn't happen on curves unless they're especially sharp. Or on downhills unless they're more than maybe 5% grade (for a vehicle the size of a MME). I've gotta think that's maybe 1% of the total drive seconds. 99% of the time you're adding propulsion from the motor, not slowing vehicle momentum. (On an interstate, which is designed to minimize such sharp curves and steep grades.)
 
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dbsb3233

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On mountain road isn't it?
Depends on the route, of course, but assuming it's I-70 in the area, I'd call that more rolling hills than mountains. Doubt there hardly any regen happening on the interstate in that 109 miles of interstate.

Edited: OK I looked closer and noticed the route on that map. Started the trip meter just south of Frederick MD, 94 miles to Bedford PA. On Google that route only shows an avg speed of about 60. 12% below expected range at 60 MPH, not so great.
 
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ChasingCoral

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But 60-70% efficiency is just referring to the seconds that you're regenning, right? (Slowing the car down from it's existing coasting momentum.)

That usually doesn't happen on curves unless they're especially sharp. Or on downhills unless they're more than maybe 5% grade (for a vehicle the size of a MME). I've gotta think that's maybe 1% of the total drive seconds. 99% of the time you're adding propulsion from the motor, not slowing vehicle momentum. (On an interstate, which is designed to minimize such sharp curves and steep grades.)
Yes, I'm really just thinking of the regeneration energy. There's a lot more braking on downhill in the Appalachians than there is in the Rockies.
 

dbsb3233

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Yes, I'm really just thinking of the regeneration energy. There's a lot more braking on downhill in the Appalachians than there is in the Rockies.
On interstates? Hmmm. Not sure I'm totally onboard with that, but it does look like slower speeds through some of it. I-70 through the Rockies has a real mix of steep and gentle.

But regardless, even 5 collective minutes of applying brake in a 100 minute interstate drive (which would be a lot) is still just 5% of the drive. If regen is 60% efficient (i.e. 40% loss during those 300 seconds of regen), that would be just a 2% loss of efficiency out of the entire 100 minute drive.
 
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Now if EA would just lower their price a little. Much better now that they don't have the additional plug fee, and charge per kWh, but ChargePoint has chargers about ½ a mile from the EA ones near my home that are $0.19 per kWh.

It was really cool when the Level 2 EA charger was complimentary for a couple weeks last month. ;)

I'm assuming that Ford's deal gives us the preferred/member rate for the first 3 years?
 

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Now if EA would just lower their price a little. Much better now that they don't have the additional plug fee, and charge per kWh, but ChargePoint has chargers about ½ a mile from the EA ones near my home that are $0.19 per kWh.

I'm assuming that Ford's deal gives us the preferred/member rate for the first 3 years?
I used to believe that, but I am realizing that was probably naive. I am now assuming Ford doesn't want to pay them $200k per month ($4 per account), and EA doesn't want to lose that revenue either.

So, I am being realistic and expecting to get the non member+ rate.
 

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That makes sense. Guess I will take the 3 free charges and take a "free" trip to Disneyland (if they ever get to reopen that is.)

I used to believe that, but I am realizing that was probably naive. I am now assuming Ford doesn't want to pay them $200k per month ($4 per account), and EA doesn't want to lose that revenue either.

So, I am being realistic and expecting to get the non member+ rate.
 

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Now if EA would just lower their price a little. Much better now that they don't have the additional plug fee, and charge per kWh, but ChargePoint has chargers about ½ a mile from the EA ones near my home that are $0.19 per kWh.

It was really cool when the Level 2 EA charger was complimentary for a couple weeks last month. ;)

I'm assuming that Ford's deal gives us the preferred/member rate for the first 3 years?
Only if you get the space gray steering wheel 😀
 

dbsb3233

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Now if EA would just lower their price a little. Much better now that they don't have the additional plug fee, and charge per kWh, but ChargePoint has chargers about ½ a mile from the EA ones near my home that are $0.19 per kWh.

It was really cool when the Level 2 EA charger was complimentary for a couple weeks last month. ;)

I'm assuming that Ford's deal gives us the preferred/member rate for the first 3 years?
I'm pretty OK with EA's pricing now. They lowered prices A LOT. They're down roughly to parity with gas now.

Chargers are expensive to put in, and use is so low that revenues already have to be scant. They're highly subsidized, but that won't go on forever and they need to establish sustainable business models. I don't want them going out of business from charging too little. For most people they're only used a few times a year anyway (since most people home charge).
 

dbsb3233

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I used to believe that, but I am realizing that was probably naive. I am now assuming Ford doesn't want to pay them $200k per month ($4 per account), and EA doesn't want to lose that revenue either.

So, I am being realistic and expecting to get the non member+ rate.
EA probably wouldn't get that $4/mo normally though from a fraction as many drivers. Many of us wouldn't bother paying it if we're only taking 1 road trip a year. So it's not nearly as much revenue that EA would otherwise be getting without the Ford partnership (maybe 20-30%, but not anywhere near as many customers as FordPass will provide them).

As such, I'm not so sure Ford is paying EA $4/mo (if we're getting Pass+ pricing at all). There's probably some deal in place where EA knows they're adding 4x as many customers (than they otherwise would) by being part of FordPass, so they'll either waive the $4 completely, or discount it to $1 or something.

Also remember that less than half of those 50,000 MME are sold in the US (thus EA). Although of course there will be more and more sold year after year.
 



 









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