November 3rd 2021 Revised Tax incentives for EVs from House of Reps.

[Draconfier]

I feel the same way. And to rub salt in my wound, my car is pretty much built but is sitting there waiting on chips. I need this thing to ship ASAP and get to me before end of year.

Same, if they classify it as "other" Ford will take a hit on a lot of cancelled MME's.

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[veronicablack]

Same, if they classify it as "other" Ford will take a hit on a lot of cancelled MME's.

Yup. Not to mention Tesla get's the credit back for Model Y. After already burning through their 200k credits. Ford meanwhile will miss out on a bunch of future MME sales and to an (probably lesser) extent, higher trim Lightnings. Really seems like a slap to Ford in favor of Musk.

 

[timbop]

Is it a car, is it a SUV. Will I get full credit for $58,000 build. I am going bananas

I feel the same way. And to rub salt in my wound, my car is pretty much built but is sitting there waiting on chips. I need this thing to ship ASAP and get to me before end of year.

No one on this forum can give you a definitive answer. I would suspect that the intent was for the Mach E to get the same treatment as the Model Y, but of course I have no way of knowing.

relax. this bill has not passed, and certainly Ford has a lobbyist or 2 on payroll and they'll find a way to get the Mach E covered. Unfortunately you'll just have to wait - in the meantime don't cancel your order.

 

[yngwenli]

Oh 100%. Based on as the law stands NOW, the MME is definitely eligible. The problem comes if/when this bill is passed. My layperson reading of the bill says our odds are less than 100% in that case. Depends how they define the MME. If it's a car? People buying higher trims can be out of luck. If it's an SUV? We're in the clear.

Maybe it's just me, but as I stated in another post, I'd just argue with the IRS if they don't allow it honestly. You can list probably 10/10 automobile reviews/articles/youtube media that it's an 'SUV'.

Nobody other than that 1x www.fueleconomy.gov website classifies it as a Small Station Wagon.

Maybe it's a vehicle length thing or something, but I suppose if you have 49/50 materials stating it's an SUV, and 1 website that says it's not...it's an honest tax mistake if the IRS does choose to rule against it.

There have been enough studies showing you have 10 CPAs/EAs do a complex return and you will have 10 different amounts due or refunds. The tax code is confusing for everyone so just go with whatever is best for your case and fight the audit later (all IMO and what I plan to do if I get audited).

That said, my MME is < $55k so I qualify either way, but have read up and studied taxes enough (wanted to be an EA earlier) to not be that afraid of the IRS honestly if you have a legitimate argument.

Also, as bad as underwitholding is, people don't realize the 'scary' penalty isn't even that much (I think it's 3% looking quickly at form i2210).

 

[veronicablack]

No one on this forum can give you a definitive answer. I would suspect that the intent was for the Mach E to get the same treatment as the Model Y, but of course I have no way of knowing.

relax. this bill has not passed, and certainly Ford has a lobbyist or 2 on payroll and they'll find a way to get the Mach E covered. Unfortunately you'll just have to wait - in the meantime don't cancel your order.

Oh I'm way too far into this thing to cancel now. But it will definitely be disappointing if after all of this my car ends up ~15% more expensive.

 

[kkgg]

I feel the same way. And to rub salt in my wound, my car is pretty much built but is sitting there waiting on chips. I need this thing to ship ASAP and get to me before end of year.

I think better off put a deposit for a Tesla model Y too. Depending on the situation we can take the ONE. We will loose either of the deposit amounts (250 tesla - 500 mach e) (which is not a bad idea I think)

My preference will always be MachE

 

[veronicablack]

Maybe it's just me, but as I stated in another post, I'd just argue with the IRS if they don't allow it honestly. You can list probably 10/10 automobile reviews/articles/youtube media that it's an 'SUV'.

Nobody other than that 1x www.fueleconomy.gov website classifies it as a Small Station Wagon.

Maybe it's a vehicle length thing or something, but I suppose if you have 49/50 materials stating it's an SUV, and 1 website that says it's not...it's an honest tax mistake if the IRS does choose to rule against it.

There have been enough studies showing you have 10 CPAs/EAs do a complex return and you will have 10 different amounts due or refunds. The tax code is confusing for everyone so just go with whatever is best for your case and fight the audit later (all IMO and what I plan to do if I get audited).

That said, my MME is < $55k so I qualify either way, but have read up and studied taxes enough (wanted to be an EA earlier) to not be that afraid of the IRS honestly if you have a legitimate argument.

Also, as bad as underwitholding is, people don't realize the 'scary' penalty isn't even that much (I think it's 3% looking quickly at form i2210).

I'm not a CPA but I work in accounting. Once it's established how the MME qualifies (and it will pretty quickly), there's likely not much you can do. Yes, the IRS is a lot spookier to people than they really are (I've met multiple auditors in my life and they've all been genuine and nice people who aren't trying to bust anyone's balls for no reason). But this isn't really some nuanced tax situation. The car either falls under SUV classification or it doesn't. And if this bill passes, I'm sure Ford will find out quickly which it is. No amount non existent tax magic will get around that.

 

[timbop]

Oh I'm way too far into this thing to cancel now. But it will definitely be disappointing if after all of this my car ends up ~15% more expensive.

Oh I get that you're disappointed, but we're talking about the US government here - things are always malleable.

I actually do understand; NJ announced a $5000 BEV rebate on Jan 17 2020 that was supposed to last 10 years. On December 15th 2020 they announced the program ended because it ran out of money. It sucked, but like you I was fully invested in getting the car and just had to fake being more pissed than the Mrs so she didn't fight me on getting the car. Lo and behold the NJ BPU amended the deadline with a loophole that allowed me to eventually get the $5000 rebate anyway.

This will work out. There's too much money at stake.

 

[DevSecOps]

It also says "Unionized Factory". The factory in Mexico is not UAW and the UAW actually was kinda pissed at Ford for sending the MachE down there. Soooo I'm not sure that credit would apply.

 

[veronicablack]

I think better off put a deposit for a Tesla model Y too. Depending on the situation we can take the ONE. We will loose either of the deposit amounts (250 tesla - 500 mach e) (which is not a bad idea I think)

My preference will always be MachE

Probably not a bad idea for a good amount of people who were relying on this tax credit. Although there's always the risk you somehow get a Tesla unexpectedly quick before year end and then the car wouldn't be eligible for any tax credit either.

 

[timbop]

It also says "Unionized Factory". The factory in Mexico is not UAW and the UAW actually was kinda pissed at Ford for sending the MachE down there. Soooo I'm not sure that credit would apply.

no the extra $5000 will not

 

[Ma9573]

So this still reads like a tax credit? That's disappointing as I was hoping for it to be a point of sale rebate like the $750 in California (formerly $1500). Or am I reading it incorrectly (I only read the linked article not the bill verbiage)?

 

[veronicablack]

Oh I get that you're disappointed, but we're talking about the US government here - things are always malleable.

I actually do understand; NJ announced a $5000 BEV rebate on Jan 17 2020 that was supposed to last 10 years. On December 15th 2020 they announced the program ended because it ran out of money. It sucked, but like you I was fully invested in getting the car and just had to fake being more pissed than the Mrs so she didn't fight me on getting the car. Lo and behold the NJ BPU amended the deadline with a loophole that allowed me to eventually get the $5000 rebate anyway.

This will work out. There's too much money at stake.

I tend to agree about the money at stake being too big to screw over a legacy American company like Ford this way. But you never know. Weirder things have happened. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a good chance this bill doesn't even end up passing at all considering the political scene right now. With or without Ford trying to lobby for changes.

But I figure it's still worth talking about and keeping people aware of the situation. Especially anyone who would be browsing this site and is probably a more involved consumer than average.

 

[hls811]

So this still reads like a tax credit? That's disappointing as I was hoping for it to be a point of sale rebate like the $750 in California (formerly $1500). Or am I reading it incorrectly (I only read the linked article not the bill verbiage)?

Might be wishful thinking on my part, but I believe this line: "Credit can be automatically assigned to the seller (must be registered) towards purchase of vehicle." means it'll be point of sale.. At least I'm hoping so. ????

 

[timbop]

I tend to agree about the money at stake being too big to screw over a legacy American company like Ford this way. But you never know. Weirder things have happened. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a good chance this bill doesn't even end up passing at all considering the political scene right now. With or without Ford trying to lobby for changes.

But I figure it's still worth talking about and keeping people aware of the situation. Especially anyone who would be browsing this site and is probably a more involved consumer than average.

Sure, but Ford doesn't even have to change the law. I'm sure there's some way they can file an errata or something with EPA that says it was misclassified - especially since Ford has always marketed it as an SUV.

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