PBP for Mach-E

OttawaGuy

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And most often you don't change a vehicle for exactly the same thing after


You either have other needs, a bigger or smaller budget or are looking for a different experience
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Blinkin

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I could keep my 5 year old, manual transmission, 4 cylinder Focus for at least another 5 years if I wanted to. It would be VASTLY cheaper over that timeframe, even taking into account growing maintenance needs over time. But I don't want to, I want something nicer, faster, bigger, and requiring less maintenance.

Frankly if you're trying to make purchases on a purely financial basis, nothing with a Mustang badge should ever be on your list.
 

jhalkias

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I think your math is correct. While my gas prices are a bit higher, and my electricity costs a bit lower, it wasn't just about cost for me either - if it was, I would be buying another Escape or even better, the new Lincoln Corsair.

I do drive a LOT for work - about 32,000 miles per year over the last five years. My daily back and forth is about 100 miles. That does help my payback, but . . .

I am buying a Mach E because:
  • It is better for the planet
  • I am tired of filling up at the gas station every three days - I want to just drive home, park in my garage, and plug in
  • Maintenance isn't just the cost, it's also the inconvenience
  • Yes, I do love the latest tech too
  • I DO think it will be more fun to drive
Yes, I will save money annually, and the Federal tax credit is nice too, but if this were purely financial, I would be making a different decision.
 

imstriker

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When I bought my LEAF, I tracked every month on the savings versus my Grand Cherokee and then Gladiator. Both of those are expensive to operate so my numbers are high. Using my LEAF primarily for commuting and short weekend jaunts, we saved just under $100/month versus driving the Diesel/Gas vehicles. So yeah, not going to payback. I'm excited to add longer trips to our repertoire, but we are not going to get our money back. I just want the car.
 

back_at_it_19

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Great question! Bev’s will not be as cheap up front as a gas engine (internal combustion engine - ICE). Not yet. $7500 credit helps. Resale value is unknown except for current Tesla’s. We’ve had 2 Ford plug in hybrids (phev) since 2016 and LOVE getting 50-75 mpg with regular 20-60 mi. 1-way commutes (non-COVID). Made the decision that I want to be gas-free. For the numbers, power is very cheap here (Pacific Northwest) and literally almost all water or wind produced. My math couple years ago showed the equivalent power for my phev’s per mile cost about $1 instead of 1 gallon of gas. And there is literally almost no maintenance. Saving $2/gallon and being carbon friendly is enough for me.
 


Garbone

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If I was concerned about the cost I would keep my 06 Mustang but for want of 2 more doors and Ford jerking my chain with the Bronco here I am. Does not hurt that the wind is blowing toward BEV.

One could argue that a 4 Door Bronco at the same out the door is a much bigger long term financial commitment. Against Synthetic oil changes and maintaining turbos for over a decade on top of fuel costs make a BEV almost seem sensable.
 

IL_Vet

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I'm hoping that I don't get a bunch of, frankly, fanboy responses, because it seems whenever I ask that in a Tesla forum (or in any forum with Tesla owners), they tend to bend over backwards to justify their purchase as being financially sound, when in fact it isn't. If you like a car for the tech, that's fine, just like you're not buying some high end sportscar thinking it's going to be cheaper than a 4 cyl to drive - but don't lie to yourself either.

Every time I am in the market for a new car I give EV's (and other technologies) a chance, but they always fail the first bar - payback.

Or, it could be that no one cares about the cost difference and they just like the car. That's fine too.
I do not really have an affinity for cars, in general. Very few cars capture my attention. The Ford Mustang Mach-E pulled me in because it is a sexy EV, qualifies for the full federal EV tax credit and mostly because I just want the MME. I did not perform any form of further analysis. It is just that simple for some.

Further, car buying is an extremely individualized choice as others have echoed. There is sometimes no rhyme or reason as to why we consumers do what we do. You offer that Tesla fanboys(fangirls) defend their purchases but that you disagree with their defenses because those defenses disagree with your opinions. Each person gets to decide without a puff of regard for the decision-making employed by others like you and me.

Your words imply that you have already determined that you will not purchase the MME because it does not offer cost savings. Is that a fair statement?

Car buying is an individualized experience each time we consumers purchase a vehicle.

What vehicle would you purchase tomorrow, if the need arose?
 
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All Hat No Cattle

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What is the value of being able to screw the oil companies, right up the old patoot? :)

I have a relative that paid extra for a Lexus Hybrid. I asked why? Because she was tired of being screwed over by the oil companies. Rational? No. Satisfying? You betcha!

But to the OP's analysis, it is just about impossible to calculate. Gasoline prices will fluctuate up and down over 10 years. Electrical rates are more stable, generally because electrical companies are state regulated monopolies.

My state mandated special rates for EV's, $.05/KW. But that can change also.

So until someone can show me what the return on investment is for the messaging seats in my Ford pickup, or the ROI on a $1400 moon roof, well....

Ford Mustang Mach-E PBP for Mach-E 1610562111381
 
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Dr. J

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Well that's part of it too - what are you all comparing this to?

I find Tesla owners seem to compare their vehicles to Porsches, which as I said is trying to fool yourself into rationalizing the decision. The HRV and Escape are comparably sized. To get ballpark cost for those I chose the most comparable trim level (of course adding AWD), and as many sensor bells and whistles I could - no, it's not totally comparable tech-wise, but it's the closest I can get.
 

GoGoGadgetMachE

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I said in one of the threads on here - I think it was one of the megathreads - that buying a car is, in the US at least, a cultural and emotional thing, not a numbers thing. There's exceptions to this - some in this thread have said they have had exceptions - but that's the general rule at least.

I did not run numbers. If I did, it's very clear from a lot of posts on here that compared to most people, my electric rates are very low, even taking into account transmission, so my calculations would come out better than yours did.

But, I didn't do that when I bought my first hybrid, my second hybrid, my third hybrid, or my current PHEV, and I didn't do that now. In the first three cases, it was:
  1. "less time at the gas station"
  2. "lower variable day-to-day cost" (*)
  3. "vaguely defined 'green' motives"
In the PHEV case, it was all of those, multiplied.

For Mach-E, all of those apply, with item 1 in the extreme of course. It's also:
  1. "'Cool' looking BEV"
  2. "Want to support Ford"
  3. "I love 'Mustang's"
  4. "It's at the time when I'm ready to do the next car purchase"
  5. "I get to be in the first wave of a new important thing"
(*) phrasing is critical here - there was a long time when I never really knew because of work driving, etc. exactly when I would end up needing to get gas, and it was kind of impossible to plan for or really budget for... nowadays that's less of a concern, but it's still an annoyance. That's different than "higher monthly payment that is fixed and I can budget for".
 

Ponypower50

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I don't drive but a 100 miles a week. So saving on gas was not my top priority when buying a Mache. I just want a different toy to drive.
 
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Dr. J

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What is the value of being able to screw the oil companies, right up the old patoot? :)

I have a relative that paid extra for a Lexus Hybrid. I asked why? Because she was tired of being screwed over by the oil companies. Rational? No. Satisfying? You betcha!

But to the OP's analysis, it is just about impossible to calculate. Gasoline prices will fluctuate up and down over 10 years. Electrical rates are more stable, generally because electrical companies are state regulated monopolies.

My state mandated special rates for EV's, $.05/KW. But that can change also.

So until someone can show me what the return on investment is for the messaging seats in my Ford pickup, or the ROI on a $1400 moon roof, well....

Ford Mustang Mach-E PBP for Mach-E 1610562111381
To that end, I could buy gas for $1.40 last March, and I can't recall the last time electricity went DOWN in price.

It does appear my calculations essentially reveal the fact that our electricity is quite expensive here. I also thought of it another way in a different thread - 1 gal of gas for me is about the cost equivalent of 12 kWh off-peak. RI is the lowest at about 10 followed by MA, AK, VT, NH, HI then CT, NY, MI, ME, WI, NJ at about 15. You could certainly run the numbers, but looking at this value should give a better idea of states in which the math leans in an EV's favor. For example the top state on that list is NV at 64! (that is, gas is very expensive compared to electricity).

It's a shame our utility doesn't really even bother talking about EV's or advertising support for them. To determine if we had TOUI had to google it - we have VPP (Variable Pricing), and I had to find a PDF with all the 10-20 or so per-kWh charges on them to calculate the final number. to make matters worse, we're penalized for usage during "peak" hours, pretty heftily too, while the discount for off-peak isn't much.
 
 




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