ROAD TRIP MUST READ! 1 pedal driving: BAD Destination chargers (even Tesla) GOOD

[TurboC]

Evening all,

I am a VERY happy MachE owner since December, and have already put over 16k miles on it (NOT a typo; 3 big road trips over 3k each!). I've learned some really crucial nuggets to share, so I strongly advise a quick read/verification on this.

**** ONE PEDAL DRIVING DRAINS RANGE! *****

I know there's a lot of enthusiasts on this site, I'm one of them, and for context, my wife is an AeroE at Boeing and I'm a ComputerE; we're science geeks. She literally sat in the passenger seat with a laptop and MS Excel spreadsheets collecting data in our FULLY Loaded MachE (I'm talking 4 bikes, bike rack, 2 kids, full frunk/trunk, we estimated over 900 lbs of total weight including heavy bike rack) and the BEST range we could get over the summer was around 200-220 miles a charge, and thru the mountains getting more like 185. I was super disappointed thinking "man, it MUST be that we're so weighted down". That was certainly a factor, except...the constant? My wife got a TON more range when she started driving the exact same route/weight/conditions...without 1 pedal driving turned on. It was HUGE..

I'm saying it was around 1.8-2.0 kw/mi range to 2.4-2.8 kw/mi range. Over a 91kw battery, and you're going from at the worst, a 164 mile range to 255 miles!! My wife kept saying "you must be a more aggressive driver" and I couldn't believe it, so when I kept the 1 pedal off, BOOM the range went WAY up. I'm now convinced that I can (finally) break the 300 mile barrier when I'm driving solo and without a bunch of stuff in it.

Other things beyond weight of course effect range (i.e. MPH is HUGE; every MPH over 60/65 and you'll see significant range drops) and a smidget to air conditioning and driving habits, but by far the worst results, EVEN ON FULL BLUE CRUISE is with 1 pedal driving. This is coming from an owner who swore by it, loves the feature, still loves it in stop and go city traffic, but will never use it on highway driving again if I'm concerned about range.

I wanted to share this knowledge; please pass it on to others, and also keep logging your trips on PlugShare with your experiences. There were a few chargers in the middle of no where Wyoming/Nebraska where we had some scares, but ultimately the EV community was REALLY good about chiming in.

Oh one other important note on this thread; book your trips with destination chargers in mind. I estimate we saved b/w $125-$175 in charging fees just by booking Hampton Inns with Tesla or non-tesla destination chargers. Getting the Tesla charger adapter worked AMAZING and got all the free juice we could every night, and hit the road with 100% full charge every day, a great bonus. Remember, you CANNOT YET use the Tesla Super Chargers (they are not designed to work with our batteries YET) but the designation chargers at 6-8kw/hr work beautifully with the adapter.

I hope this makes your lives easier; overall we LOVED the road trip (ok I loved it, my wife was less thrilled about charging times at 35 minutes but she'll lives) and bottom line, it 100% can be done with some forward planning and 1 pedal driving turned off.

Happy trails!
Chris aka "Turbo-C", proud MachE Premium AWD owner (with faux carbon fiber detailing because why not).

UPDATE: MY apologies all; I re-read my post and was not clear on the other control factor: 1 pedal PLUS Blue Cruise/Cruise Control. It was that COMBO that we were testing, and not the difference in driving habits b/w my wife and I . I would agree; range can obviously vary widely not just b/c of weight, speed, conditions, etc but also the driving habits of the person. Blue Cruise takes this out of the equation; we both were using Blue Cruise and the only difference was 1 PD. Hence the shock in the results and this thread coming to be. We were taking data constantly on this trip, and as the old addage goes, "the data doesn't lie".

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[TurboC]

Correlation isn't causation, even repeated correlation. It would help if there was a theory as to why it would make a difference. As others noted, people that use 1 Pedal by just letting off the throttle completely instead of gradually are going to have less benefit than those that can coast down, but if someone uses 1 pedal as a way to modulate speed then it should be equal or more beneficial than coasting.

I don't see how you would have enough coasting when using BC for it to make that much of a difference. We have driven a good number of highway miles with BC and I exclusively use 1 pedal, had no issues getting expected range figures for the MME, we were actually driving more efficient than the route planner had expected as we arrived almost 10% higher on charge level.

I am not saying your theory isn't valid, as there just isn't enough evidence one way or the other. I think having an OBD reader hooked up and doing a loop style test on the same roads would be needed and use the OBD scanner to record the amount of energy used. It shouldn't take much, like a 10 mile loop on fairly flat and low traffic areas. That would provide actual data we could work from. But if it's down to, BC brakes more in heavy traffic instead of coasting, then that isn't so much a 1 pedal issue as it is a BlueCruise logic issue around how it handles 1 pedal (as in, less efficiently).

Vulnox, I'm "with" you on your response, and if anything, I was trying to prove my wife wrong ("honey, it CAN'T be my driving style and I'm SURE 1 PD is BETTER) . That's when we took out all the possible differences, both had it on Blue Cruise, SAME MPH, same conditions (hillly/not hilly, etc) and without having a test track tried to have the same circumstances as much as possible. Again, try this yourself and the only difference is turn on/off 1 PD with Blue Cruise on, and it wasn't like it was maybe a few miles difference, I'm talking 15-30% different; significant. I would not have caught it more made the post if it was trivial.

 

[eleven24]

UPDATE: MY apologies all; I re-read my post and was not clear on the other control factor: 1 pedal PLUS Blue Cruise/Cruise Control. It was that COMBO that we were testing, and not the difference in driving habits b/w my wife and I . I would agree; range can obviously vary widely not just b/c of weight, speed, conditions, etc but also the driving habits of the person. Blue Cruise takes this out of the equation; we both were using Blue Cruise and the only difference was 1 PD. Hence the shock in the results and this thread coming to be. We were taking data constantly on this trip, and as the old addage goes, "the data doesn't lie".

Playing Devil's Advocate here, but were you also able to track ascent/descent on the segments of road where you compared driving with 1PD on/off? I just completed an 800+ mile trip and while I knew the route had a min elevation of 400 and a max of 2200, I didn't expect my total ascent / descent to be 38k vs 39k. That's a lot of up and down on what, for a large portion of highway, was seemingly gentle rolling.

 

[Logal727]

not surprised that you go further when you are coasting

 

[troublebot]

If you're coasting a lot then it might make sense, but, maybe I'm wrong, if you're on the highway going highway speeds and loaded down, you/bluecruise are always providing power to maintain speed, so you'd never be "off throttle" enough to coast any significant distance, certainly not enough to make that big of a difference, unless you're primarily going downhill.

Did you hook up OBDII/Carscanner and watch actual numbers?

 

[breeves002]

Breeves, I'm telling you, it 100% did effect it (and I was shocked). Here's the most important piece of info on the matter; BOTH OF US WERE USING BLUE CRUISE. The same conditions WRT weather, elevation, weight, etc were used, and literally the ONLY difference was 1 pedal vs. not. Believe me, I was as shocked to see it as I am to type it, but this is why I made this post, to help others. Feel free to test this theory yourself, but this wasn't a case of "me being a lead foot and my wife not" it was under the exact same driving conditions including top speed AND amount of acceleration. You would have to tell me that Blue Cruise works differently for different people for your response to be true (or another "control" factor that we're not considering).

This must be placebo. Correlation =/= causation. Unless you could possibly do the exact same test in a controlled environment (you can't) you cannot definitively say that was it. There were likely other factors at play you didn't think about or realize. Especially if blue cruise was being used as the behavior is the same no matter what pedal settings you have.

For the record others have said similar and I have done my own testing (over a year ago) and found no major difference in economy. I drove normally in both scenarios and had no unexpected difference.

I'm not trying to minimize what you saw - I genuinely believe you saw an increase in economy, I just don't believe it is due to 1pd being on vs off.

 

[superdave80]

If you're coasting a lot then it might make sense, but, maybe I'm wrong, if you're on the highway going highway speeds and loaded down, you/bluecruise are always providing power to maintain speed, so you'd never be "off throttle" enough to coast any significant distance, certainly not enough to make that big of a difference, unless you're primarily going downhill.

Maybe the way 1PD reacts to downhill vs. 2PD might be the difference. I use 2PD, and I've noticed on downhills that the Mach-E will allow a few extra MPH before it kicks in regen to slow you down as you 'coast'. Maybe 1PD is more aggressive as to when it starts regen?

 

[TurboC]

This is placebo. Correlation =/= causation. Unless you could possibly do the exact same test in a controlled environment (you can't) you cannot definitively say that was it. There were likely other factors at play you didn't think about or realize. Especially if blue cruise was being used as the behavior is the same no matter what pedal settings you have.

Well, tell you what (and I'm very willing/happy to be wrong about this thread) I would strongly encourage you and others that are skeptical to report back your own findings. I'm confident that if you care enough to refute what I'm saying, you're also interested in confirming the truth enough to test it. Look, I "get it" causation vs. correlation, etc , again I'm a scientist by degree/at heart. What I'm saying is this wasn't over a few hours time, I'm talking 700+ miles on both sets of data under very similar circumstances showing vastly different ranges. I truly believe this is what a difference coasting vs. not coasting makes, as the car in Blue Cruise + 1 PD mode is constantly "fighting" to maintain a speed, and not allowing a more natural driving feels, hence losing range by constantly adjusting. Please feel free to show more data, but for me and my experience, it wasn't close, it was a definitive, substantial loss of over 20% range and mi/kwh.

 

[breeves002]

Well, tell you what (and I'm very willing/happy to be wrong about this thread) I would strongly encourage you and others that are skeptical to report back your own findings. I'm confident that if you care enough to refute what I'm saying, you're also interested in confirming the truth enough to test it. Look, I "get it" causation vs. correlation, etc , again I'm a scientist by degree/at heart. What I'm saying is this wasn't over a few hours time, I'm talking 700+ miles on both sets of data under very similar circumstances showing vastly different ranges. I truly believe this is what a difference coasting vs. not coasting makes, as the car in Blue Cruise + 1 PD mode is constantly "fighting" to maintain a speed, and not allowing a more natural driving feels, hence losing range by constantly adjusting. Please feel free to show more data, but for me and my experience, it wasn't close, it was a definitive, substantial loss of over 20% range and mi/kwh.

Well like I said I did do this test, albeit over a year ago. I didn't notice any difference. Could be how I drive possibly but I've heard people say this in the past but it was no difference for me.

As far as I'm aware 1pd on or off makes zero difference in how cruise control behaves.

I'll have to do some more testing again.

 

[TurboC]

Playing Devil's Advocate here, but were you also able to track ascent/descent on the segments of road where you compared driving with 1PD on/off? I just completed an 800+ mile trip and while I knew the route had a min elevation of 400 and a max of 2200, I didn't expect my total ascent / descent to be 38k vs 39k. That's a lot of up and down on what, for a large portion of highway, was seemingly gentle rolling.

GREAT question, yes! We were driving in Iowa with extremely flat conditions; it would be hard to call any of the hills "rolling" at all. I'm going to keep testing this, but so far, the evidence strongly suggests that 1 PD does NOT take advantage of any coasting to get energy gains on downhills/momentum..

 

[TurboC]

Well like I said I did do this test, albeit over a year ago. I didn't notice any difference. Could be how I drive possibly but I've heard people say this in the past but it was no difference for me.

Just to be clear, you were using Bluecruise + 1 PD? This 100% takes OUT the "how I drive" part which is why this is the key to this whole thing, it removes variables..

 

[breeves002]

Just to be clear, you were using Bluecruise + 1 PD? This 100% takes OUT the "how I drive" part which is why this is the key to this whole thing, it removes variables..

Sure but it doesn't remove 100 other variables. I'm saying bluecruise enabled and driving for you there is no difference in how the car acts with 1pd on or off.

Like I said I'll do some more testing.

 

[TurboC]

Maybe the way 1PD reacts to downhill vs. 2PD might be the difference. I use 2PD, and I've noticed on downhills that the Mach-E will allow a few extra MPH before it kicks in regen to slow you down as you 'coast'. Maybe 1PD is more aggressive as to when it starts regen?

This is what I expect; in fact, I did STILL notice regen w/o 1 PD, it just wasn't as aggressive feeling and felt smoother/more natural. I'm guessing there's energy loss in 1 PD trying to be so precise by auto braking and then having to "speed up" to get the speed back. If you think about it, unless you're driving the salt flats of Utah, roads almost ALWAYS have a bit of a "rolling hill" effect, even in the flats of the midwest, and if the car is automatically over adjusting constantly, that would take more energy than if the vehicle more naturally "coasted" and slowly regened the batter with less aggression. This (I think) is the heart of why the results are in practicality, vastly different and ultimately result in energy/range loss.

Now I wish I could actually apply some advanced physics on a close loop track to prove why this is happening, but I'm just a geeky guy with a MachE who wants to maximize range without having to re-engineer my vehicle. LOL

 

[TurboC]

Sure but it doesn't remove 100 other variables. I'm saying bluecruise enabled and driving for you there is no difference in how the car acts with 1pd on or off.

Like I said I'll do some more testing.

Fair enough amigo, the variables (to be fair) that I could control were:

- weight
- weather (the only real variable here could be wind speed I guess, I didn't double check if there was severe head wind vs. tail wind, but we WERE thinking about that it seemed to be calm/not windy thru multiple tests. It was summer conditions, so 80-90 degrees)
- elevation gain/loss
- driving patterns (i.e. used Blue Cruise not my own foot)

The specs are a MachE Premium with AWD and long range battery. (and approx 900 lbs of cargo; I hope to never have it that packed again. LOL)

 

[TurboC]

If you're coasting a lot then it might make sense, but, maybe I'm wrong, if you're on the highway going highway speeds and loaded down, you/bluecruise are always providing power to maintain speed, so you'd never be "off throttle" enough to coast any significant distance, certainly not enough to make that big of a difference, unless you're primarily going downhill.

Did you hook up OBDII/Carscanner and watch actual numbers?

OO good ask, now I did not. I don't have one on my person, but love the question. If any of you are science nerds/range junkies and want to provide more data from your own experiences, I'd LOVE to see it! I'm going to keep testing it too over months to see if the trends still prevail in different conditions but the same road. My commute to work should help with having the road conditions as a "control".

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