Supercharger Update

Mirak

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A better way to accomplish the same thing (which some already do) is to charge a dual rate for kWh + time (sometimes called a parking charge). The latter part rewards faster charging cars and penalizes slower charging ones. It also disincentivizes charging longer when the power drops late in the charge curve.
Or, you could simply double or triple the price per kWh if you want to go past 90%. That’s an easier approach. Time is valuable for some people. Just not for Bolt drivers.
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Mirak

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What the manufacture recommends I would argue is irrelevant to the underlying issue of demand being greater than supply. Many of us on this forum and thread wouldn't be as excited for access to the Tesla network if for instance every EA installation had at least 12 stalls, and they were all functioning at once ;), because odds are that the supply, in most parts of this country, could meet demand. You, or I, or anyone rolling up on a EA station wouldn't bat an eye at some EV driver's occupation because our needs would be met.

A EV driving rideshare driver, is just another EV driver for all intents and purposes, that is adding to the ratio in an unfavorable manner to someone else's desire to use a DCFC at any given moment. The math doesn't care what the manufacturer recommends in terms DCFC frequency, charge level, etc.

Finally, a DCFC station, in theory, exists to make money and there purposes are commercial in nature. A car idling on a charger is still making them money. A uber driver hitting up a DCFC 2 times a day is meeting their objective to make money.

  • Commercial EV drivers
  • 50Kw onboard chargers
  • People charging to 100%
  • People leaving their car idle on chargers

Nobody would care that much if that happened at a gas station because there are no shortages of alternative locations and in most cases pumps at the same location to be nothing more than a minor inconvenience. In the EV world, in particular the CCS world, that can equate to 10, 20, 30 - 90 minutes extra of waiting.........all because demand is greater than supply.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. At the most fundamental level, it’s just demand outstripping supply. Increase the supply, maybe that fixes the problem. Or maybe more Uber drivers just soak up the extra supply. No doubt, the station owners don’t care if people have to wait - they’re just happy the chargers are in greater use.
 

Rory

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allow for greater insight into what the software is doing in the event of a crash, etc.
A correct but unfortunate turn of phrase. I assume we're talking about a software crash, not a vehicle crash!
 

dbsb3233

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It would be interesting if auto manufacturers built a DCFC "counter" into their cars (in the same vein as engine hour counters) to give potential buyers an idea of how the previous owner used the car.

I think a lot leasees in particular have a "eff it, that's the next owner's problem" WRT DCFC'ing and charging to 100% that's detrimental to the EV market as a whole.
It's still unclear just how "bad" lots of DCFC is for the battery. Same with frequent 100% charges. Sounds like it used to be worse with EVs and batteries made a decade ago but I'm not seeing many reports of it hurting much on cars made in, say, the last 5 years. Most don't have a ton of miles to know yet, but some do.

The only data I've seen is from Teslas tracked through a 3rd party data collector I don't recall the name of. Which showed very little degradation. But Tesla does things differently enough that I don't feel too great extrapolating that to non-Teslas.

I haven't noticed any significant degradation in mine at 51k miles and probably 40-50% DCFC (lots of road trips and no daily commute). But it's also hard to tell in the cold months. Pretty much have to compare summer to summer.
 


ChasingCoral

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It's still unclear just how "bad" lots of DCFC is for the battery. Same with frequent 100% charges. Sounds like it used to be worse with EVs and batteries made a decade ago but I'm not seeing many reports of it hurting much on cars made in, say, the last 5 years. Most don't have a ton of miles to know yet, but some do.

The only data I've seen is from Teslas tracked through a 3rd party data collector I don't recall the name of. Which showed very little degradation. But Tesla does things differently enough that I don't feel too great extrapolating that to non-Teslas.

I haven't noticed any significant degradation in mine at 51k miles and probably 40-50% DCFC (lots of road trips and no daily commute). But it's also hard to tell in the cold months. Pretty much have to compare summer to summer.
I believe this is what you are looking for:

https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/impacts-of-fast-charging

Ford Mustang Mach-E Supercharger Update Recurrent_impact of DCFC_Tesla Model Y
Ford Mustang Mach-E Supercharger Update Recurrent_impact of DCFC_Tesla Model 3
 

dbsb3233

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kodiakng

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Yep, thanks. Basically shows that age is the main factor. DCFC made almost no difference.

It's possible some that is a byproduct of their BMS, cooling system, etc. that wouldn't apply to non-Teslas. But I'd guess most of it (if not all) is just better, modern battery tech that we all have.

Hard to really say yet. Time will tell.
note that recurrent is using the tesla dashboard displayed range as a proxy for battery degradation. this is using indirect variables that may vary over time - too many for my taste.

tesla notes:
Displayed range in your Tesla is adapted based on fixed EPA test data, not your personal driving patterns. It’s natural for this to fluctuate slightly based on how you charge the battery throughout its life and how the onboard computer calculates range.
so, battery charging during its life is one component but also is pinned up by other factors.
 

dbsb3233

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IMHO we just have to "drive the darn things" and not worry. It works for gasoline vehicles, right?
Drive it, certainly. That's it's whole purpose. But I think the point is there's best practices that reduce the degradation of the car and make it last longer. Even ICE cars. We don't have to change the oil every 5000 miles, but we know the engine will probably last longer than letting it go 20,000 miles with dirty oil. This is kinda the same thing... applying best practices to extend the life of the battery when reasonably possible. As long as it doesn't inhibit our ability to drive the darn thing, of course.
 

ChasingCoral

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A correct but unfortunate turn of phrase. I assume we're talking about a software crash, not a vehicle crash!
Yes, absolutely software crash...thank you! Someday, I'll learn how to properly construct English sentences :p
 

milepost1

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Keep in mind the Supercharger is likely going to be the most expensive charging option.
It maybe only option in places. If several brands available close by, that work, only then would I consider price. Unfortunately not like I can go across the street cause it is cheaper, or cause this side of street isn't working. Can't wait till I can shop for "top tier" electricity. But for now, if on road trip, happy to find any electricity that works.
 

milepost1

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The Chevy Bolts being used as Ubers and Lyfts hogging chargers drove me crazy on my trip this week. They took up all of the usable chargers at EvGo station I normally use on this trip. So I went to EA on the other side of the city and every charger there was working and all of them were empty.

I think that we’re going to see the Bolts at the SCs as well. It drives me crazy.
And drives you crazy why?
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