Tesla Slashes Prices

[theduke]

No, it shows a lack of understanding for how HP is measured in every vehicle.

Please. When the direct competition, a Model Y Perf, can sustain full power throughout and the GTME intentionally cuts power after 5s, it's a design flaw, plain and simple.

Having had multiple Tesla packs apart personally, I would be the GTME probably has inadequate cooling to sustain multiple or sustained full power draws. Tesla's Model S before 2017 had this problem as well, although they let pack heat determine the throttle curve, not an arbitrary time like 5s.

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[SWO]

That's right, ICE car can maintain max power until they run out of gas as long as they keep the RPM at the peak. The MachE loses power quickly after 5 seconds, even if you don't keep on accelerating.

So what was your point again?

Tell me how fast that car "keep[ing] the RPM at peak" is accelerating again?

 

[devmach-e]

I think carmakers are pumping out too many cars for the current demand which is why EV days supply of cars is 75 (trucks are far worse at 120-150 days). Telsa will cut prices further IMO and other carmakers will follow suit because demand is softening.

More deals like $17.5K off Volvo C40s leases and $600/months leases on $110K+ Mercedes EQSes will appear.

A 75-day supply is not necessarily indicative of a bad oversupply issue. The healthy target is generally between 55 and 70 days. 75 days is barely over the target range. 125 days clearly indicates an overabundance of inventory.

 

[SWO]

Please. When the direct competition, a Model Y Perf, can sustain full power throughout and the GTME intentionally cuts power after 5s, it's a design flaw, plain and simple.

Having had multiple Tesla packs apart personally, I would be the GTME probably has inadequate cooling to sustain multiple or sustained full power draws. Tesla's Model S before 2017 had this problem as well, although they let pack heat determine the throttle curve, not an arbitrary time like 5s.

WADR, you're making a completely different argument.

The post I was responding to claimed that Ford was engaging fraud with their HP rating because it would not make 480hp at all times. It's nonsense. No car does. Heat up a Model Y Performance (or run the battery down) and it won't either. It's just silly.

 

[voxel]

A 75-day supply is not necessarily indicative of a bad oversupply issue. The healthy target is generally between 55 and 70 days. 75 days is barely over the target range. 125 days clearly indicates an overabundance of inventory.

75 as of today-ish... it's growing. Some gas trucks have 180+ days supply and growing.

I visited a Kia dealership this past weekend to look at Niro EVs for my brother... yikes... Been sitting for months. $46K for a new one.

EV6s have been on that same lot since Nov/Dec. There was one 2022 also. A fairly common situation. There will be soon $10K+ incentives to unload the inventory. Kia is now offering $3750 cashback on loans and $7500+ for leases. Other EV carmakers like Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes are sitting a pile of inventory too.

 

[Mach1E]

or advertising 480 hp. But leaving out that you only get it for 5secs. Hmmm. Truth in advertising.

Oh I’ve dragged Ford through the coals on that one.

Unlike some one dimensional fanboys, my axe cuts both ways.

 

[SWO]

75 as of today-ish... it's growing. Some gas trucks have 180+ days supply and growing.

I visited a Kia dealership this past weekend to look at Niro EVs for my brother... yikes... Been sitting for months. $46K for a new one.

EV6s have been on that same lot since Nov/Dec. There was one 2022 also. A fairly common situation. There will be soon $10K+ incentives to unload the inventory. Kia is now offering $3750 cashback on loans and $7500+ for leases. Other EV carmakers like Volvo, Polestar, Mercedes are sitting a pile of inventory too.

$46k for a Niro EV is nuts.

Seems Hyundai/Kia are taking the slowdown worse than others. Aside from lack of tax credits, IMO now that the situation is less of a sellers market people are remembering how awful Hyundai/Kia dealers are.

I had a similar experience when I considered an Ioniq for a second when the dealer wanted me to fill out their mickey mouse credit application before telling me if the car was there. No thanks.

 

[Mach1E]

WADR, you're making a completely different argument.

The post I was responding to claimed that Ford was engaging fraud with their HP rating because it would not make 480hp at all times. It's nonsense. No car does. Heat up a Model Y Performance (or run the battery down) and it won't either. It's just silly.

Sorry, but I gotta agree with the Tesla fanboys on this one.

It’s a legit complaint against Ford.

Your comment about ICE vehicles not making peak power at all times isn’t a valid comparison.

The ICE engine can make peak hp at all times at the same rpm.

When the 5 sec limit kicks in, we cannot. And remember, the 5 sec limit is just one of the “limits” we get on power. We lose hp when it’s too hot, too cold, the battery is too hot or too cold, speed above 72 mph, charge below 80%, and depending how how much the battery has discharged recently (back to back full Throttle).

The car is pre-programmed to limit power under many different conditions. And yeah, with any of the above you don’t get 480hp at any rpm. Sometimes you don’t even get 200 hp.

And until you made the comparison, no was suggested you get 480 hp at all rpm’s. Hp = tq x rpm/5252. No engine has a tq curve that would get full hp all the way (although some electric vehicles come close past peak tq rpm).

 

[voxel]

$46k for a Niro EV is nuts.

Seems Hyundai/Kia are taking the slowdown worse than others. Aside from lack of tax credits, IMO now that the situation is less of a sellers market people are remembering how awful Hyundai/Kia dealers are.

I had a similar experience when I considered an Ioniq for a second when the dealer wanted me to fill out their mickey mouse credit application before telling me if the car was there. No thanks.

IMO.. Volvo/Polestar have it the worst. I think my nearby Polestar dealer has 30 P2s on the lot.

Toyota dealers are suffering too but f**k them also. They are the shadiest of shady here in Florida. Multiple dealers refused to give me e-mail/text quotes and when I showed up to look at a Sequoia they snuck in $16K add-ons even though they were selling at MSRP. Not surprised Toyota sales are down 9% YoY when other brands are rising. The new Sequoia was a total dud... Toyota is so behind and their new cars have very questionable design decisions.

Since I'm in Austin for 3 weeks in May... I plan to visit this Cedar Park dealership to see all these bz4xs lol. I'm planning to buy a Bolt with my brother when I'm there so technically I'm car shopping

 

[SWO]

Sorry, but I gotta agree with the Tesla fanboys on this one.

It’s a legit complaint against Ford.

Your comment about ICE vehicles not making peak power at all times isn’t a valid comparison.

The ICE engine can make peak hp at all times at the same rpm.

When the 5 sec limit kicks in, we cannot. And remember, the 5 sec limit is just one of the “limits” we get on power. We lose hp when it’s too hot, too cold, the battery is too hot or too cold, speed above 72 mph, charge below 80%, and depending how how much the battery has discharged recently (back to back full Throttle).

The car is pre-programmed to limit power under many different conditions. And yeah, with any of the above you don’t get 480hp at any rpm. Sometimes you don’t even get 200 hp.

And until you made the comparison, no was suggested you get 480 hp at all rpm’s. Hp = tq x rpm/5252. No engine has a tq curve that would get full hp all the way (although some electric vehicles come close past peak tq rpm).

Every EV made will throttle power to protect the batteries / motor, so you're really just saying you have a problem the number 5. I'm not defending the Mach-E, just saying that's not a good argument because it's applicable to every EV. Cars are the same and will limit power under certain conditions.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

Tell me how fast that car "keep[ing] the RPM at peak" is accelerating again?

If the car has a CVT, then it's still accelerating at the same rpm.

Other cars have a transmission.

Either way, they're not limited by time

 

[SWO]

IMO.. Volvo/Polestar have it the worst. I think my nearby Polestar dealer has 30 P2s on the lot.

Toyota dealers are suffering too but f**k them also. They are the shadiest of shady here in Florida. Multiple dealers refused to give me e-mail/text quotes and when I showed up to look at a Sequoia they snuck in $16K add-ons even though they were selling at MSRP. Not surprised Toyota sales are down 9% YoY when other brands are rising. The new Sequoia was a total dud... Toyota is so behind and their new cars have very questionable design decisions.

Since I'm in Austin for 3 weeks in May... I plan to visit this Cedar Park dealership to see all these bz4xs lol. I'm planning to buy a Bolt with my brother when I'm there so technically I'm car shopping

I was looking at a Toyota in 2021 and found a dealer that advertised no markup. Ask them to send me a bill of sale and they dragged the car through the entire accessory catalog....literally every accessory that could be ordered was on it. I told them to take it off and they said they couldn't ("it's added on the ship as it comes over" ? )

 

[SWO]

If the car has a CVT, then it's still accelerating at the same rpm.

Other cars have a transmission.

Either way, they're not limited by time

Ahh yes, Nissan Sentra, the ultimate sports car....

I was going to mention CVT (or eCVT) but assumed nobody would bring that up seriously in the context of performance......

 

[Ghost Ryder]

Oh I’ve dragged Ford through the coals on that one.

Unlike some one dimensional fanboys, my axe cuts both ways.

I also have not been all pro Tesla either. The 5sec post was a response to a post that gave a hypothetical 0-60 time while not disclosing it was going downhill.

It was basically to point out that all manufacturers list stats that favor their brand. No OEM is 100% honest. Not even close.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

WADR, you're making a completely different argument.

The post I was responding to claimed that Ford was engaging fraud with their HP rating because it would not make 480hp at all times. It's nonsense. No car does. Heat up a Model Y Performance (or run the battery down) and it won't either. It's just silly.

That's the whole point. The argument was about claims and disclosure. How Ford claimed that the GTPE made 480hp, but left out the part that it could only do it for a very limited time under ideal conditions.

Just like your claim that Tesla claims a 330mile EPA range, but didn't point out that real-world range would be less.

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