Tesla Slashes Prices

[Mach1E]

Meh. I view it more along the MPG range that ICE cars show. I've never in my life gotten the EPA MPG on a car I owned. Not once. Always something I've taken with a grain of salt, and noted that my variance on some cars was a little off, while on others it was a lot off.

Me too, but that’s completely beside the point.

Even if the test doesn’t matter to you or doesn’t affect your buying decision, many people look at the EPA range and it’s a huge deciding factor.

How do we know? It comes up almost every time when people are deciding whether to buy a Y or Mach E.

Example-

Wow..our thoughts exactly. Ride cannot be better and quiet cabin with all season Michelin pilot as4 tires hit all the pluses. My wife loves heff GTPE. My turn in getting a ev and eyes are on the model y AWD long range with 330 mile range. $55K WELL loaded. Heading to test drive next week.

Or an example of someone who got tricked by the EPA range-

All correct, and yes there is some confusion here. I'm referring not necessarily to how far a vehicle will go on a full charge but rather what the stated range from the manufacturer is versus real world driving.

Since the Tesla Model Y has a 75 kWh battery pack and they're claiming 330 miles of range that would equal 4.4 miles per kW. On the MME GT, which is what I have on order, Ford is claiming 260 miles of range on a 91 kWh pack, or 2.9 mi/kW.

I already know that my real world numbers put the Model Y at a 3.7 mi/kW average over 28k miles under all driving conditions. From anecdotal evidence I can gather from forums like this as well as YouTube videos, it sure seems that MME drivers are achieving close to or better than the miles per kW that Ford claims. That Tesla promotes a very optimistic best case scenario range whereas Ford seems to be closer to reality is really the issue here.

What absolutely needs to be done is for a Federal standard in testing for EV range. Right now Ford and Tesla are permitted by the EPA to use two totally different, yet permissible, manners of testing. This creates an apples to oranges comparison for consumers - and they have no idea all things aren't equal.

Had I known this when buying my first EV, I would've certainly opted for the Mach-e as I liked it much better. I didn't, bought the Model Y out of range anxiety, and after some experience now have a MME GT on order.

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[Auto Motive]

Huh?

This has literally nothing to do with what we are talking about.

A Mach E driven at 56 mph could do that too. ICE cars could beat the EPA numbers at 56 mph too!

The point is they’re choosing to use the less accurate test for real world driving when the competitors use a more realistic one.

It purposefully TRICKS consumers into thinking the Model Y has significantly more range than the Mach E for example.

How do we know that consumers are tricked? People bring up the EPA range all the time here. They also bring it up on every review and comparison.

The only time people figure out the truth is either through 3rd party independent testing or after they buy the car.

Well our mach e GTPE gets 3.0kwh highway 65 mph temp is 79deg ac on 68 fan on 2. Under 50 mph same above run 3,5 kwh. So far our new Y is at 5.0kwh under 50mph.

 

[Mach1E]

Well our mach e GTPE gets 3.0kwh highway 65 mph temp is 79deg ac on 68 fan on 2. Under 50 mph same above run 3,5 kwh. So far our new Y is at 5.0kwh under 50mph.

And I get 8 mpg in my 69 Mach 1.

But we aren’t comparing mpg or mi/kWh and the GTPE isn’t a part of the discussion.

So let’s not muddy the waters any more if we can.

Talking range of the MY LR and the Mach E ER AWD.

We know the Y is slightly more efficient, but it has a smaller battery and slightly less range.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

The point isn’t how accurate the tests are for YOUR driving. None of the standardized tests will be, unless you drive the same as they do in the test.

The point was that when you use the SAME test, it allows consumers to make an informed decision when comparing different brands and models.

And again, Tesla chooses to use a different test cycle that makes them look like they have more range than the competitors, when they actually don’t.

I would argue that other OEM are using the different test as TESLA was one of the first on the seen, and really the first mass produced/adopted EV on the scene.

Furthermore, the test that they used have 3 more cycles than the standard hwy and city that other OEM uses.

Ultimately, the EPA should have one test. Decide on which one is most applicable.

Even with ICE cars, people never really got the MPG that EPA reported under normal conditions.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

And I get 8 mpg in my 69 Mach 1.

But we aren’t comparing mpg or mi/kWh and the GTPE isn’t a part of the discussion.

So let’s not muddy the waters any more if we can.

Talking range of the MY LR and the Mach E ER AWD.

We know the Y is slightly more efficient, but it has a smaller battery and slightly less range.

Hell, we're not even talking about which car gets better range, but rather which test is used, and whether its disingenuous to report a factual result on a gov't test.

 

[ab13]

From another news story.
"Malla said he was working with his insurance company but did not plan to buy another electric vehicle in the future following his experience."

This happens periodically, and that's concerning since the manufacturer doesn't say anything. That's why I would prefer more conservative operation/design.

 

[Mach1E]

I would argue that other OEM are using the different test as TESLA was one of the first on the seen, and really the first mass produced/adopted EV on the scene.

Furthermore, the test that they used have 3 more cycles than the standard hwy and city that other OEM uses.

Ultimately, the EPA should have one test. Decide on which one is most applicable.

Even with ICE cars, people never really got the MPG that EPA reported under normal conditions.

This was all covered above already. Even a link to a whole article explaining how and why the 5 cycle test gives larger range numbers. The 2 cycle test is more realistic. See post #1002.

Definitely agree that the EPA should stick to one test so we don’t have this issue.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

This was all covered above already. Even a link to a whole article explaining how and why the 5 cycle test gives larger range numbers. The 2 cycle test is more realistic. See post #1002.

Definitely agree that the EPA should stick to one test so we don’t have this issue.

Yeah, I saw that. Seems like the issue is how many percentage to reduce the total range by. Seems like the best bet would be to use the 5 cycle test, but increase the % to 35% like the 2 cycle test.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

From another news story.
"Malla said he was working with his insurance company but did not plan to buy another electric vehicle in the future following his experience."

This happens periodically, and that's concerning since the manufacturer doesn't say anything. That's why I would prefer more conservative operation/design.

There's always going to be one off flukes. If this was a trend like the Bolt or the lightning fire, then I would be more concern, but if they're selling 500k a quarter, and there's only one fire, I wouldn't say that there is a design issue.

 

[moparguy]

IMO.. Volvo/Polestar have it the worst. I think my nearby Polestar dealer has 30 P2s on the lot.

Toyota dealers are suffering too but f**k them also. They are the shadiest of shady here in Florida. Multiple dealers refused to give me e-mail/text quotes and when I showed up to look at a Sequoia they snuck in $16K add-ons even though they were selling at MSRP. Not surprised Toyota sales are down 9% YoY when other brands are rising. The new Sequoia was a total dud... Toyota is so behind and their new cars have very questionable design decisions.

Since I'm in Austin for 3 weeks in May... I plan to visit this Cedar Park dealership to see all these bz4xs lol. I'm planning to buy a Bolt with my brother when I'm there so technically I'm car shopping

Toyota, Kia and Huyndai have the worst markups but because they have the hottest-selling cars, everything these companies sell, moves fast, the BZ4x is going for $2k-$3k under msrp in that group.
If you also notice, all window stickers are loaded with bull shit add ons from the factory as well.

 

[ab13]

There's always going to be one off flukes. If this was a trend like the Bolt or the lightning fire, then I would be more concern, but if they're selling 500k a quarter, and there's only one fire, I wouldn't say that there is a design issue.

It's not one off, it's every few months.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

It's not one off, it's every few months.

I'm going to have to call BS on this one.

If it was that frequent, there would of been recalls.

 

[ab13]

I'm going to have to call BS on this one.

If it was that frequent, there would of been recalls.

People can start posting more of these, but here's a couple more. Tesla has always fought NHTSA investigations.

https://www.kcra.com/article/sacramento-county-tesla-catches-fire-siblings-escape/42751273

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local...n-fire-at-fort-lauderdale-dealership/3020643/

 

[theduke]

People can start posting more of these, but here's a couple more. Tesla has always fought NHTSA investigations.

https://www.kcra.com/article/sacramento-county-tesla-catches-fire-siblings-escape/42751273

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local...n-fire-at-fort-lauderdale-dealership/3020643/

Car in your sig has a lot higher battery fire rate:
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35683821/toyota-rav4-battery-fire-risk-investigation/
https://www.classaction.org/toyota-rav4-car-fire-lawsuits
https://www.batterytechonline.com/i...yota-rav4-battery-fire-investigation-revealed

Turns out, not just Li-Ion batteries have fires (the RAV4 was caused by the Lead Acid battery - 100+ year old technology).

 

[ab13]

Car in your sig has a lot higher battery fire rate:
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35683821/toyota-rav4-battery-fire-risk-investigation/
https://www.classaction.org/toyota-rav4-car-fire-lawsuits
https://www.batterytechonline.com/i...yota-rav4-battery-fire-investigation-revealed

Turns out, not just Li-Ion batteries have fires (the RAV4 was caused by the Lead Acid battery - 100+ year old technology).

Actually it isn't because I have the hybrid from Japan. There was some recall for the gas only versions due to some improper battery issue. Gas version has a completely different engine and source of parts. This car has only 2 recalls, neither has anything to do with the car function and it has the AGM battery.

The third article you quoted says
"The NHTSA investigation of battery fires in Toyota’s RAV4 has nothing to do with EVs, hybrids, or lithium-ion batteries."

And it said
"Improper battery installation or prior front end collision repair was a factor in the EWR Field Reports"

Which meant it had to do with a repair or change of the battery done elsewhere.

The linked NHTSA report says
"The 12V battery B+ terminal shorts to the battery hold down frame which may result in the sudden loss of electrical power, vehicle stalling, and/or a fire originating in the engine compartment."

I have an AGM battery not located in the engine compartment. So it doesn't apply, and I already read all these previously.


Also based on the IIHS insurance data from over a dozen insurance companies, my hybrid is in the mid to lower percentile for probability of non collision fire insurance claims.

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