Tesla Slashes Prices

[theduke]

Don’t need them. I understand learning from your mistakes.

I don’t get cheering for an actual disaster.

Musk didn't cheer for the rocket exploding.

Some people did, sure, but if he did that I would kindly request that you back up this assertion with a link so that we can all see it for ourselves please.

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[roamtheworld]

Don’t need them. I understand learning from your mistakes.

I don’t get cheering for an actual disaster.

Agree to disagree it was a disaster. Cargo on board like people that's a disaster IMO.
Here is another point of view that many here are trying to articulate https://arstechnica.com/science/202...-was-starships-launch-a-failure-or-a-success/

 

[EVandSolar]

I do.

Unlike many people who take a crazy person like Musk or Trump and label them “all bad,” I recognize that crazy people can do some good things too.

It’s ok to agree with some of the things that these narcissists do or say.

But I also recognize the crazy things.

Fair. It seems as though many of those who achieve disruptive change are not Mother Theresa; always some bad with the good; Henry Ford, Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, etc.

 

[theduke]

This is what we call “changing the subject.”

Tesla did something wrong. They immediately raised prices due to the tax credit.

Pointing out that other manufacturers also raised prices over a couple year period has nothing to do with what Tesla did.

NO NO NO.

Back this up with a link. Because the price increases were put into effect LONG before the tax credit. Their price increases were in line with everyone else in the industry, who were just doing through "dealer markup".

 

[Ghost Ryder]

Yes, my wife wants to test drive a Tesla Y this weekend - looking at the base model.
Not sure about the lack of the driver info screen I am so used to....

It takes about a week to get used to it when I got a MY. If you really think about it, the only info you really need is the current speed and that's displayed on the left upper part of the screen on the Tesla.

The benefit of not having the display right in front of you is that you have a clearer view of the road and the air vents blow cold or warm air right at you vs from the sides.

If you really want a driver screen, there are aftermarket solution that looks OEM and is plug and play. Not expensive either. About $500.

https://www.rpmtesla.com/products/t...art-instrument-cluster?variant=40591799975990

no affiliation. Just one example.

 

[roamtheworld]

This is what we call “changing the subject.”

Tesla did something wrong. They immediately raised prices due to the tax credit.

Pointing out that other manufacturers also raised prices over a couple year period has nothing to do with what Tesla did.

Excuse my French but what are you talking about?
Automotive manufactures have adjusted prices up or down for the last 40-50 years using rebates and special financing to lower among other things. They routinely adjust for holidays, or at the end of year to help move inventory. Tesla doesn't sell through dealers so they can adjust on the fly as they see fit. Easter sale or Government sets price limits for tax breaks
This is NOT changing the subject

 

[Mach1E]

That's not true. Those price increases went into effect long before the IRA was even drafted. That's simple a matter of easily googled fact.

And Tesla's price model is WAY different than say Ford's. Ford just let dealers gouge you with $20k "market adjustments".

You are trying to make Tesla/Elon out to be a villain with that argument, but the facts are that every last automaker did the same thing. How much has the Ford F-150 Lightning increased in cost? And they haven't brought MSRP back down on that one.

Might want to google again:

https://electrek.co/2021/11/12/tesla-increases-model-y-prices-again-new-incentives-coming/

November of 2021-
“New EV incentive in the US
The recent price increases have come as Tesla buyers are expected to soon regain access to the federal EV incentive.

The pending Build Back Better Act should give Tesla buyers $7,500 in tax credit.”


As soon as the government money looked like it was coming, prices went up.

They did the same thing with the revised rules in Feb 2023.

I agree that other manufacturers did it too! Not so obviously, but for sure prices went up.

But again, that’s changing the subject. Just because other people did it, doesn’t make it ok. But it is an obvious example of how the credits don’t lower prices to the consumer.

 

[roamtheworld]

Here is an example of Toyota lowering prices back in February in China for the bZ4x to be more competitive
https://carnewschina.com/2023/02/16...c-suv-dropped-4300-usd-starting-at-24800-usd/

Nothing special for automotive companies raising or lowering prices as the market changes. They pull the levers they need to keep sales going.

 

[theduke]

Might want to google again:

https://electrek.co/2021/11/12/tesla-increases-model-y-prices-again-new-incentives-coming/

November of 2021-
“New EV incentive in the US
The recent price increases have come as Tesla buyers are expected to soon regain access to the federal EV incentive.

The pending Build Back Better Act should give Tesla buyers $7,500 in tax credit.”


As soon as the government money looked like it was coming, prices went up.

They did the same thing with the revised rules in Feb 2023.

I agree that other manufacturers did it too! Not so obviously, but for sure prices went up.

But again, that’s changing the subject. Just because other people did it, doesn’t make it ok. But it is an obvious example of how the credits don’t lower prices to the consumer.

No, that's a POOR argument on your part. "Just because other people did it, doesn't make it ok."

Again, you want to say that Musk and Tesla should play to a totally different set of rules than everyone else.

Sorry, but that's 100% BS on your part. You are just using it as cover because you hate Musk and Tesla. There is nothing "fair".



And your other argument - Tesla dropped prices 15 days after the IRA went into effect, and they dropped them HARD. It's the ENTIRE POINT OF THIS THREAD. Not everyone else followed suit, but for sure in the case of Tesla, the credits 100% went to the customer, and then some.

 

[Mach1E]

Excuse my French but what are you talking about?
Automotive manufactures have adjusted prices up or down for the last 40-50 years using rebates and special financing to lower among other things. They routinely adjust for holidays, or at the end of year to help move inventory. Tesla doesn't sell through dealers so they can adjust on the fly as they see fit. Easter sale or Government sets price limits for tax breaks
This is NOT changing the subject

I posted the link above.

It’s one thing to raise and lower based on market conditions.

It’s completely different to take government money aimed at making BEVs more affordable for consumers, and instantly raising prices to keep that money for yourself.

It’s unethical plain and simple.

Legal? Absolutely. But just plain wrong. And does nothing to help the environment.

 

[EVandSolar]

I‘m curious, do we think Ford will respond with more price cuts?

No. It's possible, but seems unlikely since they already have significant losses on every car sold.

 

[roamtheworld]

$2K price increase for Ford Lightning back in in August 2022.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/09/business/ford-f-150-lightning-price/index.html
$4K price increase in March 2023
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a43473797/2023-ford-f-150-lightning-another-price-increase/
Not sure I understand all of the negative comments toward Tesla increasing or lowering prices as this happens all the time in the Automotive industry.

 

[Mach1E]

No, that's a POOR argument on your part. "Just because other people did it, doesn't make it ok."

Again, you want to say that Musk and Tesla should play to a totally different set of rules than everyone else.

Sorry, but that's 100% BS on your part. You are just using it as cover because you hate Musk and Tesla. There is nothing "fair".



And your other argument - Tesla dropped prices 15 days after the IRA went into effect, and they dropped them HARD. It's the ENTIRE POINT OF THIS THREAD. Not everyone else followed suit, but for sure in the case of Tesla, the credits 100% went to the customer, and then some.

I feel like you really haven’t followed the Tesla pricing games of the last few years.

Price was higher during the first 200k units for Tesla. When credit went away? Price dropped.

2021- credit looks like it was coming back- price went up significantly.

End of 2022- price drop for those not getting credit

2023- price increase due to credit.


Yes, in the last few months they made some major price drops. But that had to do with faltering stock price and revenue issues. They had already done all the above stuff that essentially stole the tax credit from the consumers before this.

1 right doesn’t fix a bunch of wrongs.

 

[theduke]

I posted the link above.

It’s one thing to raise and lower based on market conditions.

It’s completely different to take government money aimed at making BEVs more affordable for consumers, and instantly raising prices to keep that money for yourself.

It’s unethical plain and simple.

Legal? Absolutely. But just plain wrong. And does nothing to help the environment.

But they DID raise / lower based upon market conditions. The supply chain was crap, commodity prices went up, in some cases 3X or more (easily googled - but Lithium went up from 18k/ton to 85k/ton).

ALL manufs had these problems, it wasn't unique to Tesla, and they DID NOT use the IRA as cover.

Not only did they not use the IRA as cover, they lower the prices FIRST, and gave customers a double-bonus - lower MSRP AND clients get to pocket the $7500.

No other manuf did that.

 

[roamtheworld]

I posted the link above.

It’s one thing to raise and lower based on market conditions.

It’s completely different to take government money aimed at making BEVs more affordable for consumers, and instantly raising prices to keep that money for yourself.

It’s unethical plain and simple.

Legal? Absolutely. But just plain wrong. And does nothing to help the environment.

So what about my example above with Ford Lightning helps the environment or customers?
"$4K price increase in March 2023
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a43473797/2023-ford-f-150-lightning-another-price-increase/
Not sure I understand all of the negative comments toward Tesla increasing or lowering prices as this happens all the time in the Automotive industry."

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