The only thing Tesla has over Mach-E

[Pioneer898]

Tesla's software and tech hardware is far superior to the Mach-E. Just going into the trip details causes audio stuttering. It's like they put old Pentium CPUs in these cars. Very laggy and underpowered. The software is also much better.

This is from a ways back in this thread, but this drives me crazy. As a software engineer, if I was making a car there is no way I wouldn't put the highest end cpu available in it. Even a top end chip will show it's age in 10 years, so if you're using a cheap one now...

To me it's one of those bang-for-buck mistakes on Ford's end. Relatively small cost increase to have higher quality hardware, but huge customer impact. By far one of the most common complaints about the Mach E is the responsiveness of the infotainment system. If it was buttery smooth I guarantee they would sell more vehicles. Not to mention they could probably add more features with expanded hardware, which would attract even more customers.

I know it's not at all practical, but I would instantly opt-in for a $2k upgrade to have a top-tier latest gen processor and dedicated gpu in the car.

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[TheSteelRider]

dog mode has other critical functions like locking the doors and preventing the windows from being rolled down

There is also live camera monitoring

If those are there then you have dog mode

Yes, you can lock/unlock the door from the keypad on the driver's side door of the Mach-E

Assume the windows you mean, disable the window switches in the interior cabin. Good point about windows being rolled down, caffeinated dogs/cats could still activate the windows in this situation. I'm not sure if the Mach E has the ability to disable the switches, but I doubt it.

I didn't realize Tesla has live camera monitoring. I'm assuming here you mean the driver's attention monitoring camera. How is the field of view on that camera? I've not seen this in action but it does sound useful. The Mach E does not have a generalized interior camera, only the driver's monitoring camera on the steering wheel which clearly is only looking towards the driver's headrest, so Ford would have to add an additional camera for any similar functionality.

 

[tobiasjef]

How is the field of view on that camera? I've not seen this in action but it does sound useful. The Mach E does not have a generalized interior camera, only the driver's monitoring camera on the steering wheel which clearly is only l

tesla does not use a driver attention sensor like every other car with a sensor through the steering wheel.

There is a general purpose cabin camera which can see the entire car. This is a good example of not putting a stupid part in the car for driver assistance that serves one purpose. Tesla gets many uses out of a cabin camera.

When I mean door locking I mean the buttons on the inside of the car are disabled which allow you single press and pop open the door (because the door is frameless). I assume you can still open the door using the manual release

 

[tobiasjef]

To me it's one of those bang-for-buck mistakes on Ford's end. Relatively small cost increase to have higher quality hardware, but huge customer impact. By far one of the most common complaints about the Mach E is the responsiveness of the infotainment system. If it was buttery smooth I guarantee they would sell more vehicles. Not to mention they could probably add more features with expanded hardware, which would attract even more customers.

Tesla CPU is not that much faster than ford. I think the intel atom found in 2022 or older cars is slower than what ford uses.

The issue is ford does not know how to optimize anything as the software is piecemealed together.

Tesla built their own OS using linux. That's why it runs smooth

Edit:

Forgot to mention that the new AMD ryzen is much faster than ford. And tesla makes their own safety systems and a lot of functions are offloaded to the full self driving computer. That helps with speed

 

[Pioneer898]

I believe you may have just invented a perpetual motion machine. Consider that heat is energy. You’re claiming that you have a machine that produces 3 times (300%) of the energy input, as output?

The heat pump isn't producing energy - it is just moving the already existing heat energy from one place to another. That is how it could put 5kW of heat energy in the cabin while only using 1.5 to 2kW of energy to spin the compressor, run the pumps, etc (those numbers are a guess - the real numbers would be different).

It's super easy to read it that way, because often folks forget to include the external heat in the examples. The heat pump is using 2kW to operate which produces ~6,800BTU/hr into the car. In addition, the heat pump is absorbing ~10,000BTU/hr from outside, and moving it inside. In total, the interior gets ~16,800BTU/hr, and the battery is only providing 2kW(~6,800BTU/hr). That also helps explain why heat pumps put out less heat when it's cold, because that exterior heat is harder to absorb.

AC does the same thing, but the heat from the pump isn't useful, so all the energy from the battery is "loss".

Like khorton said, these numbers are all made up, but the point is that the heat pump gets energy from the battery and the environment, so there's no >100% efficiency going on.

 

[Pioneer898]

Tesla CPU is not that much faster than ford. I think the intel atom found in 2022 or older cars is slower than what ford uses.

The issue is ford does not know how to optimize anything as the software is piecemealed together.

Tesla built their own OS using linux. That's why it runs smooth

That's fair. There's always the "add more hardware to fix bad software" option ?

 

[TheSteelRider]

This is a good example of not putting a stupid part in the car for driver assistance that serves one purpose.

6 of one, 1/2 dozen for another. As a user, the important point is a feature that works and at what price (not cost) and yours is a valid observation that an interior view camera is useful.

 

[Guss-E 2021]

This is from a ways back in this thread, but this drives me crazy. As a software engineer, if I was making a car there is no way I wouldn't put the highest end cpu available in it. Even a top end chip will show it's age in 10 years, so if you're using a cheap one now...

To me it's one of those bang-for-buck mistakes on Ford's end. Relatively small cost increase to have higher quality hardware, but huge customer impact. By far one of the most common complaints about the Mach E is the responsiveness of the infotainment system. If it was buttery smooth I guarantee they would sell more vehicles. Not to mention they could probably add more features with expanded hardware, which would attract even more customers.

I know it's not at all practical, but I would instantly opt-in for a $2k upgrade to have a top-tier latest gen processor and dedicated gpu in the car.

Hell yes. As someone who builds PCs and upgrades older ones, I whole heartedly agree. Bargain bin shopping for chips in a vehicle whose primary means of interacting with it is a touchscreen is a horrible idea.

It is my only real frustration with the car.

 

[tobiasjef]

6 of one, 1/2 dozen for another. As a user, the important point is a feature that works and at what price (not cost) and yours is a valid observation that an interior view camera is useful.

The thing is people look at all the cars on the road and think that tesla is behind, while other EVs have caught up.

Notice how only one manufacturer has 20% profit even on base models while it is questionable that others are even making money?

Tesla has so many features (more than competitors) and most of them are run off of just 1 infotainment computer, a self driving computer, and single set of 8 cameras.

Ford removed hands free liftgate, while tesla added hands free liftgate free as a software update. No sensor needed

They have a 360 security system, dashcam, accident avoidance systems that most manufacturers will not have for 5+ years

Even a simple feature like chime on green light would require machine learning to detect a green light and insure you are in the correct lane for said light.

Ford has an entire set of 360 cameras used for parking assist only and then they have separate systems for driver assistance, emergency braking, etc. Not cheap at all.

So while people mistakenly think tesla sat on their ass for 10 years, they worked on systems that nobody has and reduced the cost of manufacturing their cars by $1000s

The only thing tesla is "behind" in is charging speed, but I don't think they are interested in changing that as the charging network they have is good enough and the speeds are fast enough.

The only ones who have caught up are the chinese which we may never see here in the US. Some of the chinese self driving systems are also very good

 

[Pioneer898]

Notice how only one manufacturer has 20% profit even on base models while it is questionable that others are even making money?

You make some good points about separating hardware and software so single pieces of hardware can have many uses, but I think it’s misguided to infer that saving on some cheap sensors and chips is why Teslas are profitable. The bulk of the cost of a car is the car itself. Tesla uses cheaper components and has poorer build quality. I don’t think anyone will argue otherwise. That’s why they’re profitable. Take all the electronics out of both cars and a Mach E will cost much more to manufacture than a Tesla. I’d wager more than even them model S and Y. Just my two cents.

 

[tobiasjef]

You make some good points about separating hardware and software so single pieces of hardware can have many uses, but I think it’s misguided to infer that saving on some cheap sensors and chips is why Teslas are profitable. The bulk of the cost of a car is the car itself. Tesla uses cheaper components and has poorer build quality. I don’t think anyone will argue otherwise. That’s why they’re profitable. Take all the electronics out of both cars and a Mach E will cost much more to manufacture than a Tesla. I’d wager more than even them model S and Y. Just my two cents.

Tesla build quality is not bad like people think it is. It's more about building them fast.

Tesla uses generally good components. The cameras in the car are high quality. The suspension in a model 3 highland (probably refresh model Y) is a good suspension. Even the quality of the older suspensions were definitely good. They were just stiff which people did not like

tesla supposedly manufacturers a car with 10 hrs of labor vs 40 for others. That's probably $2000 right there even if Ford is making them in mexico.

Then you take away the 360 parking assist cameras, take away all adas systems, radar, ultrasonics, etc. and replace that with a single set of cameras and FSD computer and that's another $2000 considering they are not licensing from anyone. I think GM is charging $15K for supercruise so the included hardware must be very expensive

Tesla has no resistive heater in the car. Only heat pump and if they need excess heat, they generate the heat from the motors.

Big one is the battery pack. Tesla model Y has a longer range than the mach e but has a smaller battery pack due to better efficiency. That's probably another $2000

Gigacasting has to save some amount of money.

The mach e screen with the integrated dial is probably not cheap. Whereas the model 3/Y screen is a better looking screen which probably costs less. Tesla does not use automotive screens. They use industrial displays that they self tested.

Building seats in-house certainly saves money too.

There's also no trims for the most part. Everybody gets powered/ventilated/heated seats. Both passenger and driver. Everybody gets glass roof. The only artificial limitation is that RWD cars have a slightly downgraded audio system.

 

[Pioneer898]

Tesla build quality is not bad like people think it is. It's more about building them fast.

Tesla uses generally good components. The cameras in the car are high quality. The suspension in a model 3 highland (probably refresh model Y) is a good suspension. Even the quality of the older suspensions were definitely good. They were just stiff which people did not like

tesla supposedly manufacturers a car with 10 hrs of labor vs 40 for others. That's probably $2000 right there even if Ford is making them in mexico.

Then you take away the 360 parking assist cameras, take away all adas systems, radar, ultrasonics, etc. and replace that with a single set of cameras and FSD computer and that's another $2000 considering they are not licensing from anyone. I think GM is charging $15K for supercruise so the included hardware must be very expensive

Tesla has no resistive heater in the car. Only heat pump and if they need excess heat, they generate the heat from the motors.

Big one is the battery pack. Tesla model Y has a longer range than the mach e but has a smaller battery pack due to better efficiency. That's probably another $2000

Gigacasting has to save some amount of money.

The mach e screen with the integrated dial is probably not cheap. Whereas the model 3/Y screen is a better looking screen which probably costs less. Tesla does not use automotive screens. They use industrial displays that they self tested.

Building seats in-house certainly saves money too.

There's also no trims for the most part. Everybody gets powered/ventilated/heated seats. Both passenger and driver. Everybody gets glass roof. The only artificial limitation is that RWD cars have a slightly downgraded audio system.

I won’t pretend to know nearly enough about how cars are made to have an opinion on a lot of this, but I’ll agree with a few things.

I love Tesla’s lack of “trims”. This is one of my biggest pet peeves when buying from any other manufacturer. Want the ventilated seats AND the GT? Impossible. Can’t be done, ludicrous idea… Tesla you get the same features across the board. Beautiful

Building seats in house makes perfect sense. If Ford is buying seats that’s wild. Vertical integration isn’t always the best solution, but it certainly lowers costs.

I don’t know what an “automotive” display is, but it sounds like a good way to charge 10x the price for a totally normal LCD. I would avoid that too.

Where I’ll disagree is with build quality. A driving factor in choosing the Mach E over a Model Y for me was that I didn’t want to buy a brand new $50k car that felt cheaper than the one I have in the driveway already.
Also spending 40 hours on the car vs 10 might not be the flex you think it is when Tesla is known for its poor QA. The number of factory defects and repairs on their brand new cars is very high.

The battery is definitely a higher cost, but the efficiency in the Tesla is gained by using less/lighter materials, which can make the car feel cheap. The biggest hit to efficiency in the Mach E is probably the design/aerodynamics, which is form over function, and let’s be real, we all want our cars to look good. I love the look of the Mach E much much more than the Y/3.

Lastly, I think ditching non-photo sensors was a mistake for Tesla.

Like I said, I don’t know enough about car manufacturing to say anything for sure, but point being, cost of a car is much more complex than any short list of differences, and I’d rather buy a car that cost more to manufacture than less. Cheaper isn’t always better

 

[Dear_OP]

I have come to learn that for EVs, if it's not an SVD, it's already a dated platform with short lived scalability. Ford is so so old school despite trying. Software is glitchy and slow. The video feeds are low res compared to the various S3XY Models. I also despise the Ford dealership experience. My Tesla friends have mobile tech come to their homes when they request for service.
Tesla's ecosystem is just much more integrated that makes owning and driving an EV pleasant.

So many forum threads are dedicated to adopting Tesla tech.

 

[TheSteelRider]

6 of one, 1/2 dozen for another. As a user, the important point is a feature that works and at what price (not cost) and yours is a valid observation that an interior view camera is useful.

The thing is people look at all the cars on the road and think that tesla is behind, while other EVs have caught up.

Notice how only one manufacturer has 20% profit even on base models while it is questionable that others are even making money?

Tesla has so many features (more than competitors) and most of them are run off of just 1 infotainment computer, a self driving computer, and single set of 8 cameras.

Ford removed hands free liftgate, while tesla added hands free liftgate free as a software update. No sensor needed

They have a 360 security system, dashcam, accident avoidance systems that most manufacturers will not have for 5+ years

Even a simple feature like chime on green light would require machine learning to detect a green light and insure you are in the correct lane for said light.

Ford has an entire set of 360 cameras used for parking assist only and then they have separate systems for driver assistance, emergency braking, etc. Not cheap at all.

So while people mistakenly think tesla sat on their ass for 10 years, they worked on systems that nobody has and reduced the cost of manufacturing their cars by $1000s

The only thing tesla is "behind" in is charging speed, but I don't think they are interested in changing that as the charging network they have is good enough and the speeds are fast enough.

The only ones who have caught up are the chinese which we may never see here in the US. Some of the chinese self driving systems are also very good

Apologies, It isn't clear to me that this response is/should be related to the quoted comment, I assume it was supposed to be in response to a different post?

 

[tobiasjef]

I don't use these but games are an obvious one that other cars should have.

Tesla has legitimate paid games for free, i.e. cuphead, catquest, stardew valley, etc.

If you can license real games without having to pay a dime for them, why would you not? Someone would get use out of them

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