Uh Oh

[mccdeuce]

FOr Lvl 1 charging you get about 2-4 miles per hour, so let's say 3 miles. If you leave it on the charger for 24 hours then that would be around 70 miles of added range per day. But that assumes that you don't go anywhere. So if your car is unplugged for 12 hours, that leaves you with 35miles of recharged miles per day. Assuming that the avg commute is 30 miles, that does not leave a lot room to do anything else.

So Lvl may be doable, but not worth the trade off for most people in my opinion.

Average driving per day in America is 40 miles. So there are plenty that drive less

In my case I have 5 cars, all but one are old and each is over 100,000 miles. Nothing at this point about EV has convinced me to buy one. I'm a car guy, so out of pure interest I'd like to have an EV, but at this point, because of the range and charging situation, I can't see replacing one of my ICEV. The one ICEV I would replace with a MME is 17 years old and has 423,000 miles on it, but as much as I like the MME, the public charging is a significant issue. And yes, I already have a 50-amp circuit ready for a L2 (my welder circuit in my shop). And yeah, I'm a Boomer too (born in the last month of Boomers - LOL).

I also enjoy driving cars. Hardest change for us was giving up the stick shift (both for my wife and I) Personally, we love driving EV and don’t want to go back for daily drivers. Fun older cars will still be part of our life though.

I find it interesting that you are concerned with the public infrastructure when you have a level 2 at home. We have owned EVs since 2021. My job at the time required a commute of 70-80 miles a day. In the year and a half of ownership we use public infrastructure for maybe 1-2% of our charging needs.

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[mccdeuce]

My wife encountered rental car EV drivers recently. She was charging her Mach-E on a Level 2 charger at a hotel near SFO airport. Three Asian visitors showed up in a rental Tesla with about 5 miles range left. They had no clue about range or charging and just happened to see the hotel chargers.

She kindly unplugged and let them use the charger to get back on the road. This incident reminded us that many people who rent EVs have no clue how to operate or charge them.

it also reminds me of how many people have no clue how to use an ICE vehicle either…! ?? have a buddy who put gasoline into his new diesel truck!

 

[dtbaker61]

Really?

According to Ivan Drury, Edmunds' director of insights, automakers -- Tesla included -- are selling EVs at a loss. The move by Hertz and other rental car companies to stop adding EVs to their fleets has contributed to sluggish sales, he argued.

I would guess that the lack of fast chargers at or near car rental depots (airports etc) would be a big problem.... renters turning cars in empty because they are unfamiliar with how, when, or where to charge to return vehicles 'full' would be a nightmare for rental turnaround. Also.... can you imagine the rescues for all the people that don't plan their trip from airport to destination and get low on charge?!

short-range 'last mile' delivery trucks may save them though. Denver area is using a TON of box trucks for Amazon (from Rivian I think), and they have their own charging infrastructure at warehouse so they avoid the whole public station need for short daily routes

other big opportunity is school buses and city buses.... cities and school districts are building covered parking lot solar, with 'boost' chargers. chargers load up internal batteries during the day, and DCFC vehicles at shift change.

 

[mccdeuce]

I would guess that the lack of fast chargers at or near car rental depots (airports etc) would be a big problem.... renters turning cars in empty

This was my favorite part of renting an EV. Returned it at 10% and paid $25 and walked away.

 

[Trigger]

That is pricing. Over estimating demand.

2023 EV sales were expected to have finished over 1 million units, a record year. Selling more than in the past would not be defined as "declining interest", would it?

To Rick's point, here are the Q3 EV sales by brand. While Ford grew YoY 13%, they had new competition at the high end with Mercedes, Rivian, and BMW and at the low end by Chevy, Hyundai, VW and Genesis. Charging infrastructure is an issue for those who can't charge at home but it looks like we'll have access to Tesla network soon and many more players are coming online this year and next. I paid $49k for my 23 MME Premium and 22's are going for $39k on Carmax today. https://www.coxautoinc.com/wp-conte...y-Blue-Book-Electric-Vehicle-Sales-Report.pdf

 

[Gene Bank]

I bought a 2022 MME GT. It is coming up on 2 years since I have owned this car. Not one single problem. I love love love this car. I take people for a ride and it blows them away. Very few EVs up here. I paid $70K I live in Central NH. The closet fast charger is 45 miles away. When I bought the car I figured that by now there would be all kinds of charging stations. Nice ones' under canopies for our NH winters or with facilities like gas stations have. There is still not one level 3 charger in the northern 2/3 of the state. I can not just decide to drive to Boston or around the White Mountains. Owning an EV is a pain in the rear compared to a gas car. Until the infrastructure changes and is made user-friendly I do not see universal adoption of EV's. My attitude has changed greatly. I plan to just hold on to this car for a long time. fortunately I'm retired and have gas powder truck.

 

[mccdeuce]

From 2007 thru 2021, I commuted 165 miles round trip per day, 5 days a week, even during COVID. I started looking at the Model S in 2013 as a replacement to my then 250,000-mile daily. The cheapest Model S at that time was about $75,000. Its winter range would not meet my commute requirements and it's summer range barely leaving a little reserve. Public infrastructure was limited back then but when you drive 80 miles one way, which is 1 hour 45 minutes given traffic delays, adding even 25 minutes of charging time daily to a 105-minute commute to gain a little range buffer is just not tolerable.

Add in power outages that occasionally happen in my rural local, if I had no backup ICEV I'd have been screwed. So if I couldn't rely on EV like I can ICEV, why bother.

I can’t answer the 2013 tech or Tesla but over the past few months I have been commuting multiple times a week 203 miles. My 2022 CA rte 1 RWD does this just fine at highway speeds starting with 90% charge and ending with 15-20% remaining in cold weather.

I do agree that adding any charging time would be miserable. But if you figure most days you only charge at home overnight and in most ICEV you will get gas twice that’s 20min you save driving EV each week.

 

[mccdeuce]

I bought a 2022 MME GT. It is coming up on 2 years since I have owned this car. Not one single problem. I love love love this car. I take people for a ride and it blows them away. Very few EVs up here. I paid $70K I live in Central NH. The closet fast charger is 45 miles away. When I bought the car I figured that by now there would be all kinds of charging stations. Nice ones' under canopies for our NH winters or with facilities like gas stations have. There is still not one level 3 charger in the northern 2/3 of the state. I can not just decide to drive to Boston or around the White Mountains. Owning an EV is a pain in the rear compared to a gas car. Until the infrastructure changes and is made user-friendly I do not see universal adoption of EV's. My attitude has changed greatly. I plan to just hold on to this car for a long time. fortunately I'm retired and have gas powder truck.

I recently was up in Lebanon NH and had a Tesla EV. On renting the car, the mobile cable was not there. Hertz offered a polestar instead. Taking a look at PlugShare there were little to no CSS around. But… enough SuperChargers if I needed a boost so I kept the Tesla. (Didn’t need a Lvl 1 charge anyway) So hopefully the upcoming opening will help you up there.

 

[RickMachE]

I bought a 2022 MME GT. It is coming up on 2 years since I have owned this car. Not one single problem. I love love love this car. I take people for a ride and it blows them away. Very few EVs up here. I paid $70K I live in Central NH. The closet fast charger is 45 miles away. When I bought the car I figured that by now there would be all kinds of charging stations. Nice ones' under canopies for our NH winters or with facilities like gas stations have. There is still not one level 3 charger in the northern 2/3 of the state. I can not just decide to drive to Boston or around the White Mountains. Owning an EV is a pain in the rear compared to a gas car. Until the infrastructure changes and is made user-friendly I do not see universal adoption of EV's. My attitude has changed greatly. I plan to just hold on to this car for a long time. fortunately I'm retired and have gas powder truck.

As @mccdnoted, Tesla imminent accessibility may change things. However, in 2022 you could have read New Hampshire's NEVI plan and seen what is coming and likely when. Every 50 miles on interstates doesn't do much for you though.

 

[Mach1E]

Yup, I used to fill up every two days, but it's a 16 gallon tank and takes 5 minutes max using a card at the pump. I live rural, so never any waiting for a pump. But my home charger location would be a 3 minute walk over to my barn/shop. In the rain or snow, that'd suck big time. So for me, 6 minutes a day vs. 10 minutes a week under a canopy. And zero range anxiety. Everyone has a different situation of course.

I tried to get the company to install a few chargers at work, but they couldn't see the benefit. I tried to convince them if they wanted to hire young engineers they had to look Green. Adding chargers would have helped a lot with recruitment. Funny now, I've been gone from the company (after a 25-year career there) and they installed two chargers in 2023 a year after I left. And in the very same spots I suggested and priced out for them. Lol.

You should park there and charge every once in a while out of principle. ?

 

[azerik]

I hope I'm not blamed for the demise of the Mach E.

Nope, I'll take the blame. I killed the Gen2 Lightning, 300zx, SVO Mustangs, Can-Am x3's. Usually I manage to buy whatever it is about 2 years before interest fully drops. Oh and it's not just cars. I have lots of 'other toys' that have all taken a value dump as well.

 

[nvabill]

My Mach E is worth half of what I paid for it in January of 2023. Hertz is selling 20,000 EVs. When I first joined the forum I posted a history of my EV ownership. I said I had owned a Chevrolet Volt and it was cancelled. I also said I owned a Honda Clarity and it was cancelled. Then in jest, I said that I had just bought a Mach E and I apologized to fellow Mach E owners. Although it seems unlikely, I hope I'm not blamed for the demise of the Mach E.

Wow, @Old_Norm you really got things stirred up today with this thread, one of the best I have seen in a long time. I think a lot of guys get defensive when you say anything about EV sales when all they really need do is sit back and watch and time will tell! ? And, in all seriousness I do have to agree with what they have said, it is hard to argue with the numbers. A record 1.1 million EV's were sold in the US for 2023 so hard to say demand is waning.

 

[Old_Norm]

Wow, @Old_Norm you really got things stirred up today with this thread, one of the best I have seen in a long time. I think a lot of guys get defensive when you say anything about EV sales when all they really need do is sit back and watch and time will tell! ? And, in all seriousness I do have to agree with what they have said, it is hard to argue with the numbers. A record 1.1 million EV's were sold in the US for 2023 so hard to say demand is waning.

Of course past sales are no prediction of future sales. Beanie Babies sold out when they were introduced. I've posted a couple items that support a declining interest in EVs. But no one has posted anything showing a raising, public interest. I'm sold on EVs and hope they eventuslly replace ICE vehicles.

 

[Shayne]

Of course past sales are no prediction of future sales. Beanie Babies sold out when they were introduced. I've posted a couple items that support a declining interest in EVs. But no one has posted anything showing a raising, public interest. I'm sold on EVs and hope they eventuslly replace ICE vehicles.

Gas prices will curb the interest. They go up interest goes up they go down interest goes down. Do not expect people to adopt EV's for some higher reason or to benefit anything or anyone other than themselves. Always amazed me that the speed people drive on the highways was inversely proportional the cost of gas at the time. They are all flying on the highway again up here. Double the price ev's will look like an option again.

 

[smoke20]

Thank you. I guess I can remove the garlic necklace and rabbit's foot. ?

Your story reminds of an airline flight several years ago. I was in the exit row. Flight attendant comes by and advises everyone in the exit rows of their duties in the event of an emergency. She then asked if anybody had any questions or inabilities to perform these duties. Guy next to me says, "No questions. I've opened that door 3 times; my wife says I'm a jinx." Dead silence...as we processed that comment.

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