Update on Mach-E launch progress from engineering friends in Mexico

SnBGC

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It's a confusing concept for newbies (as it was for me initially), but even trickier to explain in a marketing ad without wasting a full paragraph of space.

It's also very frustrating, because it's just the opposite of how people usually refuel. In an ICE car, we fill to 100% all the time and drive in the 25-100% range almost exclusively. Which is natural because it leaves plenty of reserve in the tank for unexpected detours.

But in a BEV, the fastest charging comes when running the battery down to 10% or less (i.e. nervous time). And gets very slow (and expensive at EA pricing) above ~75%. That's not the best marketing info. So they're staying vague.
Yeah. It is a tough concept to explain. In some ways it is like filling up a water balloon with another water balloon. On one hand you have a balloon totally full of water (the charging station) and on the other hand a balloon with very little water inside (the car). Connect the two balloons with a straw. Skinny straw might be like 50kw.....thick shake straw might be like 150kW etc.
Lay both balloons on the table and see how fast the empty balloon fills initially....then the transfer rate decreases as the pressure equalizes.

Then, remember that most of us don't normally fill one balloon with another since most of us have a water tap at home anyway.
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This has been a point of conversation here, regarding whether that's really the case or just selective slicing.

Are you referring to the reported "increase" of charging from 47 miles in 10 minutes to 61 miles? It appeared to many of us that all that is is a switch from reporting the AVERAGE of the whole charge curve to reporting just the FIRST 10 MINUTES of the charge curve (where batteries always charge faster). That was suggested in one of the footnotes, and seemed to be confirmed by the retention of the "45 minutes to do a 10-80% charge" statement even after the supposed increase.
While it doesn't tell you how fast an 80% charge will take (from 10 or 20%), it will let you know how much mileage you may get from a short charge. So if someone is a little short of getting to their destination where their main charger is located (home or work), they can get a feel for time to get the range needed. So for example, if I'm 30-40 miles from home, then a quick 10 minute charge is all that I would need.
 

SnBGC

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While it doesn't tell you how fast an 80% charge will take (from 10 or 20%), it will let you know how much mileage you may get from a short charge. So if someone is a little short of getting to their destination where their main charger is located (home or work), they can get a feel for time to get the range needed. So for example, if I'm 30-40 miles from home, then a quick 10 minute charge is all that I would need.
And.....
When in that situation where a splash and go is what is needed then the SOC will be in that 10-20% range which is probably the scenario for maximum charge rate. So, the metric of "up to 61 miles of range in 10 min" is actually a pretty useful figure to know and understand.
 

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Then, remember that most of us don't normally fill one balloon with another since most of us have a water tap at home anyway.
And that's ultimately the real draw of a BEV -- home charging. In essence, BEVs are a benefit for most people if they can nearly always charge overnight at home. But a detriment if you have to charge at retail stations more than very infrequently.

I think that's what will drive most BEV purchase decisions for mainstream buyers. Those multiple negatives to retail charging will keep most buyers away from BEVs if they need to use the vehicle for much more than just around-home driving (with easy overnight home charging). "2nd car in the garage" is the perfect scenario (which fits well for a ton of suburbanites).

Those that need a vehicle for much road tripping will likely stick with ICE or PHEV.
 

ajmartineau

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I think the real life number for road trips is 10%-60%. You’re not going to sit around waiting after the car tapers. That is also something that is too complicated for an add. I know I will be happy with the <60% charging.
 


dbsb3233

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While it doesn't tell you how fast an 80% charge will take (from 10 or 20%), it will let you know how much mileage you may get from a short charge. So if someone is a little short of getting to their destination where their main charger is located (home or work), they can get a feel for time to get the range needed. So for example, if I'm 30-40 miles from home, then a quick 10 minute charge is all that I would need.
Yes, that's where the 61 number is useful -- where you're running very low and just need to add 10 minutes. You get the benefit of that "almost empty" low end of the curve by adding a few extra kWh faster (thus a few more miles faster).

What may be more useful on a road trip is doing more shorter segments running it nearly empty. Even 20-30 minute charges will reap some of that low-SOC extra charging speed. I'd guess in that 45 minute 10-80% charge Ford states, you'll get about 65% of the miles added in the first 22.5 minutes, and the remaining 35% in the last 22.5 minutes.

But charging in that pattern (running it almost empty more frequently) ain't so good on the nerves. :eek:
 

Mach Daddy

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Informative discussion. I normally don't drop far below 1/2 a tank (commute driving), but I will change my behavior with the MME.

Please correct me if I misunderstood, but for us commuters it will be best to stay in the 10-50% range to get the quickest charge at home, most miles overnight, and to maximize battery life?

Based on my commuting needs, I think I will rarely go above 50%. Unless I want to try BEV weekend getaways.
 

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Informative discussion. I normally don't drop far below 1/2 a tank (commute driving), but I will change my behavior with the MME.

Please correct me if I misunderstood, but for us commuters it will be best to stay in the 10-50% range to get the quickest charge at home, most miles overnight, and to maximize battery life?

Based on my commuting needs, I think I will rarely go above 50%. Unless I want to try BEV weekend getaways.
No, we (or at least I) was only talking about L3 charging (like at EA stations). It's only the high-power DCFC charging where the charge curve comes into play. At home on L1 (120V) or L2 (240V), it's likely all slow enough that there effectively is no charge curve (i.e. it should simply charge the same rate throughout). Or more precisely, that power rate should be low enough to fall entirely below the charge curve, thus never get capped.

It's the high power DCFC charging where the car's BMS (battery management system) needs to slow it down as it fills up to protect the battery from heat damage.

When charging at home, none of that matters. Just plug it in and don't worry about it. Charge to at least 80% (or even 90 or 100 if you want) without any real concern. (Some say best to stop around 80-90% most of the time but with the Mach-e's conservative 11% battery buffer, even that's probably not necessary either.)
 

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Informative discussion. I normally don't drop far below 1/2 a tank (commute driving), but I will change my behavior with the MME.

Please correct me if I misunderstood, but for us commuters it will be best to stay in the 10-50% range to get the quickest charge at home, most miles overnight, and to maximize battery life?

Based on my commuting needs, I think I will rarely go above 50%. Unless I want to try BEV weekend getaways.
No. The time to charge at home doesnt vary that much at all no matter what percent charge the battery has. Miles of range per hour while charging at home will depend on the EVSE and average watts per mile that vehicle consumes. If you have a standard 32 amp level 2 EVSE at home then you can expect your MME to gain about 21-22 miles of range per hour of charge time at home.

All the discussion about charge speeds being variable depending on state of charge and other factors is related to DC charging. DC fast charging rates have a lot of variables to consider so it isnt cut and dry. Additionally, the DC charge rate is not constant. It ramps up and then slows down so that is what people mean when they want to see the charge curve.

Level 1 and Level 2 charging are much different methods vs DC fast charging. There is a curve as well but it is negligible and basically inconsequential.
 

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No, we (or at least I) was only talking about L3 charging (like at EA stations). It's only the high-power DCFC charging where the charge curve comes into play. At home on L1 (120V) or L2 (240V), it's likely all slow enough that there effectively is no charge curve (i.e. it should simply charge the same rate throughout). Or more precisely, that power rate should be low enough to fall entirely below the charge curve, thus never get capped.

It's the high power DCFC charging where the car's BMS (battery management system) needs to slow it down as it fills up to protect the battery from heat damage.

When charging at home, none of that matters. Just plug it in and don't worry about it. Charge to at least 80% (or even 90 or 100 if you want) without any real concern. (Some say best to stop around 80-90% most of the time but with the Mach-e's conservative 11% battery buffer, even that's probably not necessary either.)
Agree. Well put.

For those folks where their MME is going to be their first EV......I highly recommend a level 2 EVSE at their residence if at all possible. With that they really wont have to give much thought at all to managing the charge events. The vehicle has settings and other super convenient features where it does all that for them. All they have to do is remember to plug in when they park. The vehicle does the rest. If you set a schedule then it preconditions the cabin and makes sure you have enough charge to make your destinations and return. It also keeps the battery in the comfortable temp range and charges when rates are low.

You dont even need to remember to unplug because the car won't let you drive away with the plug inserted. It really is the easiest thing ever. These owners will NOT miss having to schedule time from their day to stop at a fuel station to pump smelly and flammable fluids into their vehicle. EV charging for those that have a L2 EVSE at home will be VERY convenient and require VERY little thought. The vehicle will always be ready to go....provided the owner remembered to plug in.

My FFE will even send me a text message if I forget. "Hey, dude. Dont forget to plug me in before you go to bed if you want me to be fully charged in the morning!"
 

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Just to add a visual... While we don't know exactly what the charge curve for the Mach-e will be yet, it's likely to be similar to these. It tops out at 150 kW on the Mach-e ER battery, and should taper off from there. The BMS caps the rate that it charges as it fills up. But even at it's most capped rate (probably around 25 kW), it's still well above the 7.6 kW rate that a home 32A 240V charger feeds to the vehicle.

charging-time.jpg
 

dbsb3233

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For those folks where their MME is going to be their first EV......I highly recommend a level 2 EVSE at their residence if at all possible.
That'll be me too. I don't have a 240V outlet installed in the garage yet, but I'll likely have one put in eventually. But I'm planning to wait until after I get the vehicle first, and check out the charger that comes with the Mach-e to see if I think I want to just use that or buy a 3rd party one off Amazon.

Initially I can get by fine on 120V, since we're retired and don't drive many miles. Overnight should add ~35 miles, and we have many days the car doesn't even leave the garage and can charge for 40 hours straight (~120 miles). And we have a 2nd car anyway.
 

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That'll be me too. I don't have a 240V outlet installed in the garage yet, but I'll likely have one put in eventually. But I'm planning to wait until after I get the vehicle first, and check out the charger that comes with the Mach-e to see if I think I want to just use that or buy a 3rd party one off Amazon.

Initially I can get by fine on 120V, since we're retired and don't drive many miles. Overnight should add ~35 miles, and we have many days the car doesn't even leave the garage and can charge for 40 hours straight (~120 miles). And we have a 2nd car anyway.
I was already planning on adding an L2 charger, but I like your logic. It will be fun to track my usage during the first couple of weeks.
 
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I asked him and this is what he sent back.


you said that you’ll be getting +14 hp and +9 ft-lbs of torque over original estimates, and it charges about 10% faster too.

Nope not talking about the “quick charge” and you mean what was done from an engineering side? Faster charging is all electrical so it just means better battery performance. For the power and torque, it’s all about the dual motors (one for each axle) there’s nothing that even connects them physically they just sit on the same chassis. So they’re more efficient. Single-speed transmission so nothing disengages either. Ford has not released the true numbers, as there might be over the air updates at a later time to increase drive range.

23 to 26 is about a 10% increase (closer to 13% but I didn’t know exact numbers)
 

hybrid2bev

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I asked him and this is what he sent back.


you said that you’ll be getting +14 hp and +9 ft-lbs of torque over original estimates.
We already knew the power is higher than the original estimates. About 14 hp on the AWD ext range.
https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...s-increased-across-the-board-hp-lb-ft-kw.676/

And it was confirmed in the order guide.
https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/2021-mach-e-mustang-order-guide.877/

Are they talking about ANOTHER power increase?
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