Well, Ford, the new "Distance To Empty" algorithm doesn't work . . .

[joymyr]

I prefer the estimates in my Nissan Leaf. It's much simpler, and quite optimistic, but at least it's consistent. With the Mustang I need to consider my past trips to calculate how far off the estimate will be compared to my planned trip.

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[hawkeye3point1]

Both types of cars use the same EPA test(s). The same test(s) that manufacturers have been using for decades.

Agree, my question about EPA figures is do they use kWh drawn from the grid for their mi./kWh rating or do they use kWh consumed from the HVB like the trip meter.

I have gone through everything I can find on fueleconomy.gov and it is not disclosed anywhere. IMO, they should base it on grid energy not HVB energy to make it equivalent to mpg. Otherwise there is a 10% error if you try to compare the cost of each.

Does anyone know?

 

[dbsb3233]

Agree, my question about EPA figures is do they use kWh drawn from the grid for their mi./kWh rating or do they use kWh consumed from the HVB like the trip meter.

I have gone through everything I can find on fueleconomy.gov and it is not disclosed anywhere. IMO, they should base it on grid energy not HVB energy to make it equivalent to mpg. Otherwise there is a 10% error if you try to compare the cost of each.

Does anyone know?

If you're looking for fuel costs, then I'd agree that it ought to include charging losses. But if you're looking for range (which I'd say 98% of people are when looking at EPA figures for an EV), then it's just the opposite. Gotta base that on just the onboard power in the battery.

Not sure which way they do it. All I know is that it's usually pretty far off either way. And an especially poor indicator of range where people usually care most about range - highway driving.

 

[Mach-Lee]

Please explain the battery cable disconnection and why you did it and why you think it helped. I might try it.

Ford sometimes has issues with states in their programming, which can cause glitches when the software is updated and the state isn’t updated or maintained properly. Just like rebooting your phone solves weird issues sometimes, forcing a reboot of all the modules in the car also can solves some glitches. Pulling the 12V forces everything to start with a clean state.

It’s worth a shot if you want to try to fix your range. I’m at about +7% error currently.

 

[hawkeye3point1]

If you're looking for fuel costs, then I'd agree that it ought to include charging losses. But if you're looking for range (which I'd say 98% of people are when looking at EPA figures for an EV), then it's just the opposite. Gotta base that on just the onboard power in the battery.

Not sure which way they do it. All I know is that it's usually pretty far off either way. And an especially poor indicator of range where people usually care most about range - highway driving.

Agree, but if EPA uses grid energy and Ford decided to use EPA figures for the GOM, like it seems to have changed to, then the range estimate will be inflated by 10%.

 

[devmach-e]

Agree, my question about EPA figures is do they use kWh drawn from the grid for their mi./kWh rating or do they use kWh consumed from the HVB like the trip meter.

I have gone through everything I can find on fueleconomy.gov and it is not disclosed anywhere. IMO, they should base it on grid energy not HVB energy to make it equivalent to mpg. Otherwise there is a 10% error if you try to compare the cost of each.

Does anyone know?

Have you seen this doc: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/pdfs/EPA test procedure for EVs-PHEVs-11-14-2017.pdf

Near as I can tell, the kWh/100 miles figure is derived from wall-to-battery, and the MPGe is derived from battery to wheels, using a 33.705 kWh factor for calculating MPGe (Miles Per Gallon equivalent).

The miles per kWh figure that the car reports is purely battery to wheels.

The 10% calculation error you are seeing maybe an expression of the charging losses.

 

[Thunderanger]

Ford sometimes has issues with states in their programming, which can cause glitches when the software is updated and the state isn’t updated or maintained properly. Just like rebooting your phone solves weird issues sometimes, forcing a reboot of all the modules in the car also can solves some glitches. Pulling the 12V forces everything to start with a clean state.

It’s worth a shot if you want to try to fix your range. I’m at about +7% error currently.

That's just one of the cables in the frunk right? Pull the positive I assume?

 

[devmach-e]

If you're looking for fuel costs, then I'd agree that it ought to include charging losses. But if you're looking for range (which I'd say 98% of people are when looking at EPA figures for an EV), then it's just the opposite. Gotta base that on just the onboard power in the battery.

Not sure which way they do it. All I know is that it's usually pretty far off either way. And an especially poor indicator of range where people usually care most about range - highway driving.

MPG or MPGe figures have always been about the ability to compare two or more comparably equipped cars to each other to get an idea of which car is the more expensive or cheaper vehicle to operate. You don't have to know your local fuel (gasoline or electricity) cost, just that if one car gets 20 MPG and the other gets 30 MPG, the 20 MPG will cost 50% more to operate for the same fuel source.

 

[Thunderanger]

Oh and then will I have to reprogram profiles, etc as well?

 

[Mach-Lee]

That's just one of the cables in the frunk right? Pull the positive I assume?

Yes. Pull the negative terminal. My settings remained intact. Range will reset to EPA and adjust over the next 500 miles.

 

[dbsb3233]

MPG or MPGe figures have always been about the ability to compare two or more comparably equipped cars to each other to get an idea of which car is the more expensive or cheaper vehicle to operate. You don't have to know your local fuel (gasoline or electricity) cost, just that if one car gets 20 MPG and the other gets 30 MPG, the 20 MPG will cost 50% more to operate for the same fuel source.

That's about the only thing ICE buyers use the EPA figures for, yes. For ICE it's mainly about fuel costs.

But for EV buyers, I don't think hardly anyone looks at EPA figures for that purpose. They look at them almost entirely for range (IMO).

 

[devmach-e]

That's about the only thing ICE buyers use the EPA figures for, yes. For ICE it's mainly about fuel costs.

But for EV buyers, I don't think hardly anyone looks at EPA figures for that purpose. They look at them almost entirely for range (IMO).

Yeah, that's been my observation as well, and my personal experience. I care more about range than how how efficient the car is. There's not a huge amount of difference to me in cost between an EV that is 100 MPGe overall and than of 120 MPGe overall. The cost per mile is already pretty low, especially compared to a traditional ICE vehicle.

 

[HuntingPudel]

Hey Ford, can we not just do away with the GOM? It seems to be such a point of consternation with so many people. You can't please all of the people all of the time. It's possible to please some of the people some of the time. It's easy to anger all of the people all of the time. I think we're in the last stage with the GOM and probably not going to rise much farther than some of the people some of the time with the thing. ?‍?

 

[devmach-e]

Hey Ford, can we not just do away with the GOM? It seems to be such a point of consternation with so many people. You can't please all of the people all of the time. It's possible to please some of the people some of the time. It's easy to anger all of the people all of the time. I think we're in the last stage with the GOM and probably not going to rise much farther than some of the people some of the time with the thing. ?‍?

Getting rid of the GOM would be, well, dumb. People need a rough idea of what sort of range they can expect, even if it is off by 40 or 50 miles. Having to know what your miles per kWh are at that moment, current SOC percentage, and then forced to do math, will be a much worse issue that won't drive adoption rates higher.

 

[MellowJohnny]

Did a 170km round trip today. Somehow the car charged to 100% (rather than the usual 90%) so I decided to take a picture of the IC just as I left, and then again when I arrived home.

Left with 100% SoC and 356km estimated (!) at about 8c, arrived home with 50% SoC and 157km showing on the GoM. Drove steady at 115 kph, climate set to 20c. SR AWD.

The easiest math here is this:
I drove 170km and used half the battery - range is therefore circa 240 km. This I "believe" to be pretty accurate.

But according to GoM I drove 199km - a difference of 29 km. Not the end of the world, and in all fairness the vast majority of my day is spent driving around town, not on the highway, so maybe it's still learning.

Interestingly, when I took delivery of the car in November the temp was even a bit higher - like maybe 12c, and at 100% charge the GoM said something like 240km...

So...

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