Why 4 wire Nema 14-50

[macchiaz-o]

Understood but it doesnt change the purpose of the neutral. To return current when necessary

This entire discussion is in regards to "when necessary."

When an appliance is built with a 6-50 plug, the neutral is definitely not necessary.

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[Maquis]

The bottom line is that if the device you want to plug in has a 14-50 on it, you need a 14-50 receptacle properly wired. As others have stated, if you only have three wires, purchase an EVSE that has a 6-50 plug.

As a retired electrical engineer with decent up-to-date knowledge of the NEC, I'll simply say that some of the technical info others have posted in this thread is accurate, but some is pure garbage. Consult a qualified, licensed electrician and avoid any DYI hacks.

 

[kdryden99]

That is not true. The neutral allows the device to draw 120V if needed. It is unknown if the mobile charger needs that, but most EVSE (chargepoint, clippercreek, grizzl-e) do not.

Sorry I completely misunderstood this post. You are right

 

[Blinkin]

If you have three wire, get a NEMA 6-50 plug. That's what I have.

Plenty of 6-50 EVSEs on the market available. Check out Grizzl-E

https://grizzl-e.com/product/usa/chargers-usa/grizzl-e-classic-nema-6-50-2/

That's exactly my setup. Grizzl-e on a 6-50 plug I happened to already have in my garage (thanks previous homeowner!). Now I just need a car to plug it into....

 

[timbop]

Sorry I completely misunderstood this post. You are right

No worries, misunderstandings happen. I appreciate and respect the "mea culpa".

 

[kdryden99]

No worries, misunderstandings happen. I appreciate and respect the "mea culpa".

My hands and my mouth sometimes doesnt reflect what my brain is thinking I have a hard time explaining things

 

[RonTCat]

In a 240v supply, the ideal load will result in zero current on the neutral wire (or ground). Ground wires should not normally carry ANY current, as they are for curcuit protection purposes.

Most stoves are purely resistive loads, and so they would really never require a neutral, since there is no phase shifting or noise to potentially cause an imbalance between the two 240v phases. You don't ever have a situation where there is current on the neutral wire.

Chargers are different. They far more electrically complicated than a stove, and will do all the things above a stove can't do. While ideally they won't return any current on the neutral wire, in practice they likely will. If there is no neutral present, they will use ground for return current. This is not a great situation, especially when Joe Homeowner is touching a ground wire while replacing an electrical outlet somewhere else in the house.

If you are charging with 110v, I would guess you are using a standard 110v outlet and not using the 14-50 240 outlet.

 

[kdryden99]

In a 240v supply, the ideal load will result in zero current on the neutral wire (or ground). Ground wires should not normally carry ANY current, as they are for curcuit protection purposes.

Most stoves are purely resistive loads, and so they would really never require a neutral, since there is no phase shifting or noise to potentially cause an imbalance between the two 240v phases. You don't ever have a situation where there is current on the neutral wire.

Chargers are different. They far more electrically complicated than a stove, and will do all the things above a stove can't do. While ideally they won't return any current on the neutral wire, in practice they likely will. If there is no neutral present, they will use ground for return current. This is not a great situation, especially when Joe Homeowner is touching a ground wire while replacing an electrical outlet somewhere else in the house.

If you are charging with 110v, I would guess you are using a standard 110v outlet and not using the 14-50 240 outlet.

While i agree with everything you say, only the Tesla uses a neutral. None of the other EVSE's use a neutral. Why do you suspect current will be returned? The car is only going to use the current it needs and not more.

 

[dtbaker61]

My house has 3wire 240v lines going to where I used to have an outlet for my stove. Real easy to use that line for outside receptacle. Does anyone know why Ford requires the neutral wire? Anyone know a Mach e engineer because the service dept at the dealer I'm taking delivery is clueless. Very nice, excited for my pony to arrive but clueless

standard NEMA 14-50 outlet (4-wire) is the way to go. Then you have a standard outlet that can be used for charging, 240v tools and appliances, or even for back-feeding Generator in cases of grid outage (after you 'isolate' the house from the grid so you generator is not trying to power the neighborhood of course).

There are lots of outdoor rated enclosures with covers allowing cord out the bottom if you have to mount the outlet on an outside wall or post. DO get an electrician to do it right, use the correct size wires, and be safe!

 

[Gino_A]

Also, we traded the Bolt. Only so much room. Another note about Mach E. It charges much faster than the Bolt. We never installed a level 2 charger but "cheated" the Bolt stock charger to 240 volts. It still only charged at 16 amps and full charges were lengthy. The Mach E charger will go up to 32 amps. As I recall it wants a 50 amp circuit (you might be able to get by w/ 40). Install it now. It is a 30amp 4 prong (I do not have a neutral and it works; I installed an 80amp capable (amped down w/ a 50 amp breaker for the Mach E) a long time ago waiting for the day when electrics charge at tidal wave rates). Anyway you'll want an adequate circuit. The car has a big battery. Last night we were down to 20 miles (on purpose). It charged to full in about 12 hours give or take. I would call that fast.

As stated above by Pig Iron, the Ford Mobile Charger works without the neutral wire connected in a 14-50 plug.

 

[JerseyMike]

An appliance such as a clothes dryer actually has a mix of 220v and 110v circuits. Although the 220v circuit doesn't need a neutral wire to work, the 110v circuit does need the neutral (white) wire
Most appliances now, such as a stove actually has a mix of 220v and 110v circuits. Although the 220v circuit doesn't need a neutral wire to work, the 110v circuit does need the neutral (white) wire, 110 would be for clock, stove light, etc. In the case of the MME, there could be internal circuitry to the charger that needs 110

this is what I thought . I read somewhere that pre heating the MME while charging doesn't draw from battery so maybe that's one of those required 120v circuits needed. Thanks

 

[Woeo]

In a 240v supply, the ideal load will result in zero current on the neutral wire (or ground). Ground wires should not normally carry ANY current, as they are for curcuit protection purposes.

Most stoves are purely resistive loads, and so they would really never require a neutral, since there is no phase shifting or noise to potentially cause an imbalance between the two 240v phases. You don't ever have a situation where there is current on the neutral wire.

Chargers are different. They far more electrically complicated than a stove, and will do all the things above a stove can't do. While ideally they won't return any current on the neutral wire, in practice they likely will. If there is no neutral present, they will use ground for return current. This is not a great situation, especially when Joe Homeowner is touching a ground wire while replacing an electrical outlet somewhere else in the house.

If you are charging with 110v, I would guess you are using a standard 110v outlet and not using the 14-50 240 outlet.

You understand Ford supplies a mobile EVSE not a charger?

 

[generaltso]

You understand Ford supplies a mobile EVSE not a charger?

Well, technically Ford also provides a charger, but it’s built into the car.

 

[sjaj14]

standard NEMA 14-50 outlet (4-wire) is the way to go. Then you have a standard outlet that can be used for charging, 240v tools and appliances, or even for back-feeding Generator in cases of grid outage (after you 'isolate' the house from the grid so you generator is not trying to power the neighborhood of course).

There are lots of outdoor rated enclosures with covers allowing cord out the bottom if you have to mount the outlet on an outside wall or post. DO get an electrician to do it right, use the correct size wires, and be safe!

Lol, exactly. The only reason I had mentioned is I'm just finishing a detached 42 x 24 foot garage/barn and I ran a couple 14-50 outlets for welder and possible generator.

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