Mach-Lee

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Electrek was able to grab a snapshot of the new Mach-E LFP battery pack specs, so we can do some analysis:

Ford Mustang Mach-E New Mach-E LFP Battery Specs Revealed image-14


Source: https://electrek.co/2023/02/13/ford...lfp-battery-factory-with-chinas-catl-in-2026/

This may still be preliminary, but 78 kWh is quite a bit more than I was expecting considering LFP has an energy density that is only about 65% of NCM. I would expect about 90% of that to be usable, so about 70 kWh, which makes it virtually the same size as the current standard range pack. Looks like they are going to use 225 Ah prismatic cells:

Ford Mustang Mach-E New Mach-E LFP Battery Specs Revealed ford-battery-4-


Ford Mustang Mach-E New Mach-E LFP Battery Specs Revealed ford-battery-2-


These are made by CATL, so we can look at the specs of their other similar offerings. The 225 Ah size may be specially made for Ford.

Here is a taller 302 Ah cell: https://www.evlithium.com/catl-battery-cell/catl-302ah.html

Ford Mustang Mach-E New Mach-E LFP Battery Specs Revealed Screen Shot 2023-02-14 at 10.41.03 AM


Based on this, the Mach-E pack is likely going to be 108 cells in series, with an operating voltage between 270V and 394V, about 346V nominal which is similar to the current packs.

We can also guess what the charging curve will be like based on those specs. The charging curve allows a C rate of up to 1.0, which would be 225A. The specs allow that rate basically from 0%, so the LFP should be capable of a sustained charging rate of about 72-88 kW (gradually increasing with time) during the first 80% of the DCFC session, provided the temps are in spec. Above 80% the charge rate can drop and maintain 0.8C, which would be about 70 kW (tapering down with time) to 100%. The peak rate will likely be higher during an initial "boost" period similar to the current charging curve (perhaps 1.5C or 130 kW).

The cells must be at least 20ÂșC to achieve that rate, so hopefully Ford steps up their battery heating game here to compensate, otherwise we will see some very slow charging sessions in the cold. Specs do not allow any charging or regen while the cells are below freezing (0ÂșC). So these will not be a good choice for cold climates unless Ford adds another battery heater and improves the heating strategy to always keep the battery above 0ÂșC.

Continuous power is limited to 1C rate, which would be about 78 kW or 105 HP. That may be doubled for short periods, so 156 kW or 210 HP. Likely less than the current 266 HP. Which will translate to an increased 0-60 time of perhaps 7-8 seconds.

In summary (preliminary guesses):
  • New LFP pack will likely be around 70 kWh usable, same range as current standard pack
  • DCFC speed will be around 72-88 kW to 80%
  • Speed at 80% will not cliff as much as current NCM pack, should taper down from 70 kW
  • Will not charge in cold weather unless heated above 0ÂșC
  • Not recommended if you live where it gets below -5ÂșC/23ÂșF for very long
  • Will require a better heating strategy than we have now to avoid abysmal charge rates
  • Likely less power, 0-60 time in 7-8 second range?
    • Acceleration will be worse when battery is cold
 
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Logal727

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Electrek was able to grab a snapshot of the new Mach-E LFP battery pack specs, so we can do some analysis:

Ford Mustang Mach-E New Mach-E LFP Battery Specs Revealed Screen Shot 2023-02-14 at 10.41.03 AM


Source: https://electrek.co/2023/02/13/ford...lfp-battery-factory-with-chinas-catl-in-2026/

This may still be preliminary, but 78 kWh is quite a bit more than I was expecting considering LFP has an energy density that is only about 65% of NCM. I would expect about 90% of that to be usable, so about 70 kWh, which makes it virtually the same size as the current standard range pack. Looks like they are going to use 225 Ah prismatic cells:

Ford Mustang Mach-E New Mach-E LFP Battery Specs Revealed Screen Shot 2023-02-14 at 10.41.03 AM


Ford Mustang Mach-E New Mach-E LFP Battery Specs Revealed Screen Shot 2023-02-14 at 10.41.03 AM


These are made by CATL, so we can look at the specs of their other similar offerings. The 225 Ah size may be specially made for Ford.

Here is a taller 302 Ah cell: https://www.evlithium.com/catl-battery-cell/catl-302ah.html

Ford Mustang Mach-E New Mach-E LFP Battery Specs Revealed Screen Shot 2023-02-14 at 10.41.03 AM


Based on this, the Mach-E pack is likely going to be 108 cells in series, with an operating voltage between 270V and 394V, about 346V nominal which is similar to the current packs.

We can also guess what the charging curve will be like based on those specs. The charging curve allows a C rate of up to 1.0, which would be 225A. That would translate to a peak rate of about 88 kW while DCFC. The specs allow that rate basically from 0%, so the LFP should be capable of a sustained charging rate of about 72-88 kW (gradually increasing with time) during the first 80% of the DCFC session, provided the temps are in spec. Above 80% the charge rate can drop and maintain 0.8C, which would be about 70 kW (tapering down with time) to 100%.

The cells must be at least 20ÂșC to achieve that rate, so hopefully Ford steps up their battery heating game here to compensate, otherwise we will see some very slow charging sessions in the cold. Specs do not allow any charging or regen while the cells are below freezing (0ÂșC). So these will not be a good choice for cold climates unless Ford adds another battery heater and improves the heating strategy to always keep the battery above 0ÂșC.

In summary:
  • New LFP pack will likely be around 70 kWh usable, same range as current standard pack
  • DCFC speed will be around 72-88 kW to 80%
  • Speed at 80% will not cliff as much as current NCM pack, should taper down from 70 kW
  • Will not charge in cold weather unless heated above 0ÂșC
  • Not recommended if you live where it gets below -5ÂșC/23ÂșF for very long
  • Will require a better heating strategy than we have now to avoid abysmal charge rates
What happened to LFP batteries allowing for faster charging? I haven't seen anyone explain that.
 

kltye

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This feels like such a huge step backwards. Why is this being promoted as a good thing?
The advantages of LFP is it's cheaper, doesn't rely on exotic-ish materials, and the chances of thermal runaway is effectively nil. EDIT: It's also much more tolerant to full charges/discharges, and has a much better cycle life than NCM. Its two major disadvantages are the lower energy density and poor cold temperature performance. The latter problem can be alleviated by better heating (none required if the car is sold in sub-tropical and warmer locales). I believe they're improving the energy density problem year over year, plus requiring a smaller buffer than NCM makes that issue less bad.

All that being said, I'm still glad to have an NCM pack :p
 

azerik

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This feels like such a huge step backwards. Why is this being promoted as a good thing?
Same reason Sync4. It's newer. Newer is better right?

Tangent aside. Weight is still virtually the same as well? (I was looking at the newest M3's because of LFP but they didn't have LFP in a LR. Weight looked the same'ish but energy density was weaker SR to SR. It's touted a 'the new new' but it's really for the environment(claim) and manufacturers I supposed)
 


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Mach-Lee

Mach-Lee

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What happened to LFP batteries allowing for faster charging? I haven't seen anyone explain that.
Well, it all depends on what they choose to do with the curve. My analysis is based of the spec sheet, which Ford has really glued to with the current NCM cells (other than the initial 2 min boost) to avoid warranty claims. So in order to speed up DCFC, I think they would have to exceed the specs. Tesla has done that, this is what their LFP curve looks like (they also use CATL cells):

Ford Mustang Mach-E New Mach-E LFP Battery Specs Revealed tesla-model-3-sr-mic-lfp-2021-dcfc-c-rate-20210618


Because of the 500A CCS limitation, we are limited to about 185 kW or less, which would be a C rate of about 2.3 with the LFP pack. Ford doesn't like to go above 1.0C for very long with our current NCM packs which is very slow compared to the industry. It all depends on how much they want to push it, past experience says they are very conservative so DCFC speed increases with LFP may or may not happen. Depends what the warranty department decides.
 
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ohmslaw

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I would expect about 90% of that to be usable, so about 70 kWh, which makes it virtually the same size as the current standard range pack.
LFP does not have the same degradation from charging to 100% that NMC does over time. I bet it's fully or very close.
 
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Mach-Lee

Mach-Lee

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LFP does not have the same degradation from charging to 100% that NMC does over time. I bet it's fully or very close.
No top buffer needed, but they still need a bottom buffer for emergency use (10-20 miles past 0% indicated) and because the BMS can be inaccurate at the end. Tesla uses a variable 5-10% bottom buffer on their LFPs so I would expect Ford to do similar or more.
 

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Winter range will certainly decrease having to keep them above 32F.
 

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Mach-Lee

Mach-Lee

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Winter range will certainly decrease having to keep them above 32F.
Yup, and they will have to disable regen completely below that. Right now they put an unbelievable amount of regen into the NCM packs when they are cold (less than -5ÂșC), that will have to change.
 

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Well, it all depends on what they choose to do with the curve. My analysis is based of the spec sheet, which Ford has really glued to with the current NCM cells to avoid warranty claims. So in order to speed up DCFC, they would have to exceed the specs. Tesla has done that, this is what their LFP curve looks like (they also use CATL cells):

Ford Mustang Mach-E New Mach-E LFP Battery Specs Revealed tesla-model-3-sr-mic-lfp-2021-dcfc-c-rate-20210618


Because of the 500A CCS limitation, we are limited to about 185 kW or less, which would be a C rate of about 2.3 with the LFP pack. Ford doesn't like to go above 1.0C for very long with our current NCM packs which is very slow compared to the industry. It all depends on how much they want to push it, past experience says they are very conservative so DCFC speed increases with LFP may or may not happen. Depends what the warranty department decides.
Their marketing for LFP touts faster charging speed, so that's why I'm confused with these specs.
 

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Because it's cheaper.
Right, this. Ford is trying to address everyone screaming about cost parity with ICEVs. Not just Ford.
 

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I believe I’ve previously read that all Mach-Es, even the standard range ones, have the physical space for the extended range batteries, but that this space is simply not fully used up with the current standard range batteries - empty space below the rear seats for the standard range models.

Might that explain some or all of the higher battery capacity than anticipated? That these new batteries make better use of the available battery space on the standard trims?
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