MME Charging Curve Data Collection

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ajmartineau

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50kWh in 25-30 minutes should be very doable. That would be enough to enable a skip-stop charging cadence on a road trip with charging stations between 120-140 miles apart. There are some interstate corridors right now with EA stations over 80 miles apart.
 
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PHEV charging at the workplace or apartment complex can often be done from 110V outlet, which has low cost of installation compared to L2. Put one at each parking spot for a bunch of spots and then have L2 also that share power with adjacent L2 chargers, thus reducing infrastructure costs. As more PHEV increase faster than BEV for a few years, plug a PHEV into the 110V for the whole day or night, or BEV into shared L2 and let the control network switch from one BEV to the next (already plugged in) after a couple of hours.
 
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ajmartineau

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I assume that's a 50kW charger.
 


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I assume that's a 50kW charger.
Well I don't think Petro Canada has anything less then 150 kW, but we don't know anything of the condition of the charging session, outside temp, battery temp etc that could affect charging speed. Price wise they vary from $0.20/min CDN to $0,33/min CDN depending of the province but I would think this one is probably in Ontario, I calculated a $0.33/min, where I think they where the first to receive MME and probably Northern Ontario where these days well it's probably very cold.
 

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Well I don't think Petro Canada has anything less then 150 kW, but we don't know anything of the condition of the charging session, outside temp, battery temp etc that could affect charging speed. Price wise they vary from $0.20/min CDN to $0,33/min CDN depending of the province but I would think this one is probably in Ontario, I calculated a $0.33/min, where I think they where the first to receive MME and probably Northern Ontario where these days well it's probably very cold.
Not probably it is averaging -15 to -20c here lately for the last couple of weeks. It is to warm up shortly and is really good under the snowshoes. Maybe the American EA chargers are not the only type the MME is having a bit of trouble with? Possible they have ruled out the chargers as the cause of the problem? I have the petro can app and most (all) in Ontario are CSS 200 to 350 KW but there are not many of them yet. You would think a 50 KW charger could be maxed out? At 39 KW it would be a bit over a hour and a half to charge 10 to 80% and the after 80 it would take forever. Would be nice to know where that reference was taken, what it was charging and when and where. We have a promise from Ford of 82 KW average charging 0 to 80 and 88 KWh usable. I will trust that Ford will get this straighten out. There has been rumors that the first OTA update may take the first shot in fixing problems. All else is great and 98% of my charging will be home L2. Want to take a few trips in the silence of a go cart and have a gear to chill and charge but not forever ;). I think the chargers are coming and we are all a bit early to the party; right now doable but not too many yet. Quebec is really good ?. I have been looking for 50 amp RV camp sites on the far side of P.E.I.
 

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50kWh in 25-30 minutes should be very doable. That would be enough to enable a skip-stop charging cadence on a road trip with charging stations stations between 120-140 miles apart. There are some interstate corridors right now with EA stations over 80 miles apart.
*Should* be. But Hybrid's chart came in at ~35 minutes for 50 kWh, thus the concern. But yes, the hope is they improve that to get it about 20% better (~28 minutes).

It'll probably be better in the summer when the temperatures are 70F+ outside. Frustrating that it makes that big of a difference (BEVs suffer in cold temps in so many ways), but I guess one mitigating factor is that most people tend to take their road trips in the summer rather than the winter (for obvious reasons).
 

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As more PHEV increase faster than BEV for a few years, plug a PHEV into the 110V for the whole day or night, or BEV into shared L2 and let the control network switch from one BEV to the next (already plugged in) after a couple of hours.
Constant lower power would be better than switching it on/off to rotate between vehicles, IMO. 120V 8A (1 kW) would be fine for many, but if they want to do more then just make them 240V 16A (3.8 kW) chargers. Or they may even be able to do 120V 16A, or 240 8A (both 1.9 kW). I haven't seen any of those, but I assume they're possible and that cars would accept them. 8 hours @ 1.9 kW would be about perfect for a 1-day charge. After losses, that's about 13 kWh, which is around 40-50 city miles.

The lower the power, the lower the cost, and the more they'd be willing to put in. They should be sized for 8-hour use where employees, apartment residents, etc can just park it & forget it until they're ready to leave (no musical chairs).
 

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*Should* be. But Hybrid's chart came in at ~35 minutes for 50 kWh, thus the concern. But yes, the hope is they improve that to get it about 20% better (~28 minutes).

It'll probably be better in the summer when the temperatures are 70F+ outside. Frustrating that it makes that big of a difference (BEVs suffer in cold temps in so many ways), but I guess one mitigating factor is that most people tend to take their road trips in the summer rather than the winter (for obvious reasons).
Tom Moloughney showed the MME in mild temps holds around 100kW in the "sweet spot" of the car's charging profile up to 60%. The result was 17kWh in 10 minutes so theoretically, from 10% onwards, it's doable.

Ford Mustang Mach-E MME Charging Curve Data Collection Screenshot_20210203-073832
 

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Tom Moloughney showed the MME in mild temps holds around 100kW in the "sweet spot" of the car's charging profile up to 60%. The result was 17kWh in 10 minutes so theoretically, from 10% onwards, it's doable.

Screenshot_20210203-073832.png
Yep, that was one of the best ones we've seen. Some others not as good.

The unexpected delay was getting up to that sweet spot. We were expecting the sweet spot to be very early (roughly the 10-30% SOC). Turns out (so far) it's taking a long time to get up to the sweet spot (presumably insufficient battery conditioning). That's where the extra time is coming from. Hopefully they can improve that with better conditioning. And hopefully when it's warmer outside, it'll naturally be faster.
 

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Sadly I worry this graph might be the end of Mach E journey. My in-law's just moved closer to us and my wife would like us to visit them often, however looking I'd need to charge to 94% at a stop if we wanted to do just one. With that 80-94% being so low it might just make the trip take too much longer to make her happy.

Wish my car was delayed a bit more to see if any range help is coming but now to convince the wife that a long break at a Walmart isn't the worst thing before seeing her parents
 

dbsb3233

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Sadly I worry this graph might be the end of Mach E journey. My in-law's just moved closer to us and my wife would like us to visit them often, however looking I'd need to charge to 94% at a stop if we wanted to do just one. With that 80-94% being so low it might just make the trip take too much longer to make her happy.

Wish my car was delayed a bit more to see if any range help is coming but now to convince the wife that a long break at a Walmart isn't the worst thing before seeing her parents
Making two stops would be better than trying to charge past 80% on DCFC. Even just a 10-15 2nd stop might be enough. Is there an additional charger along the route? What cities/towns are you going between?
 

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Sadly I worry this graph might be the end of Mach E journey. My in-law's just moved closer to us and my wife would like us to visit them often, however looking I'd need to charge to 94% at a stop if we wanted to do just one. With that 80-94% being so low it might just make the trip take too much longer to make her happy.

Wish my car was delayed a bit more to see if any range help is coming but now to convince the wife that a long break at a Walmart isn't the worst thing before seeing her parents
Unless there's no DC fast charger in between, it wouldn't make sense to charge past 80%. Just make two 20-minutes pit stops instead of one 60-plus minutes stop and you're golden.
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