Mach-E Will Charge 30% Faster Than Earlier Estimates Announces Ford

[ChasingCoral]

For 2021, 45 mins to go from 10% to 80% on a 150 kW charger is pretty disappointing because at best it's mediocre.

Tesla Raven - 48 mins on V3
I-PACE - 40-45 mins
XC40 Recharge - 40 mins
Polestar 2 - 40 mins
Audi e-tron - 30 mins
Audi Q4 e-tron - 30 mins
Model Y - 27 mins on V3

I haven't taken the time yet to figure out what that 70% charge equates to in miles for each vehicle.

Or, more importantly, what 10-80% means in kWh. The battery sizes vary quite a bit across those cars.

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[dbsb3233]

For 2021, 45 mins to go from 10% to 80% on a 150 kW charger is pretty disappointing because at best it's mediocre.

Tesla Raven - 48 mins on V3
I-PACE - 40-45 mins
XC40 Recharge - 40 mins
Polestar 2 - 40 mins
Audi e-tron - 30 mins
Audi Q4 e-tron - 30 mins
Model Y - 27 mins on V3

I haven't taken the time yet to figure out what that 70% charge equates to in miles for each vehicle.

Although I think the 98.9 kWh battery in the ER MME is bigger than most (maybe even all) of those. So if ignoring the mileage and looking just at the battery, it seems on par with most of the ones that top out at 150 kW charging (the eTron with it's exceptionally great charging curve notwithstanding).

 

[silverelan]

Or, more importantly, what 10-80% means in kWh. The battery sizes vary quite a bit across those cars.

E-tron recently got a range boost after opening up usable capacity on the 95kWh battery to 91%.

If you figure EPA range jumps from 204mi to a new 215mi, then 30 mins of DCFC at 150kW will give you 150 miles.

If MME AWD ER can charge at an average 52 miles for every 10 minutes for 30 minutes, it would beat Audi.

I'm not gonna hold my breath but I would love to be pleasantly surprised.

 

[dbsb3233]

If MME AWD ER can charge at an average 52 miles for every 10 minutes for 30 minutes

156 miles in the first 30 minutes might be about right in the MME (300 mile version). They've repeatedly said 210 miles (10-80%) in 45 minutes. Which is an average of 47 miles every 10 mins. This press release says 61 for the first 10 minutes.

A decreasing charge curve that looks something like 61 miles for the first 10 minutes, 50 for the next 10, 42 for the next 10, 40 for the next 10, and 17 for the next 5 minutes adds up to 210 for 45. That's 153 in the first 30 minutes.

 

[ChasingCoral]

156 miles in the first 30 minutes might be about right in the MME (300 mile version). They've repeatedly said 210 miles (10-80%) in 45 minutes. Which is an average of 47 miles every 10 mins. This press release says 61 for the first 10 minutes.

A decreasing charge curve that looks something like 61 miles for the first 10 minutes, 50 for the next 10, 42 for the next 10, 40 for the next 10, and 17 for the next 5 minutes adds up to 210 for 45. That's 153 in the first 30 minutes.

That equates to a 30 minute stop for every 2-1/2 hours of driving. Years ago I would have considered that waaaay too much stop time on long trips. These days it sounds about right.

 

[silverelan]

156 miles in the first 30 minutes might be about right in the MME (300 mile version). They've repeatedly said 210 miles (10-80%) in 45 minutes. Which is an average of 47 miles every 10 mins. This press release says 61 for the first 10 minutes.

A decreasing charge curve that looks something like 61 miles for the first 10 minutes, 50 for the next 10, 42 for the next 10, 40 for the next 10, and 17 for the next 5 minutes adds up to 210 for 45. That's 153 in the first 30 minutes.

For the extended range rear wheel drive, I will trust your math but it looks good to me.

When comparing the MME against the Audi e-tron, I prefer to use the extended range all-wheel drive version since that is probably the closest comparison to the big German.

189mi is the 70% mileage for the AWD ER so knock off a few miles from each of your 10 min RWD numbers and we're there.

To Audi's credit, the e-tron can get to 100% in 40 minutes.

 

[dbsb3233]

That equates to a 30 minute stop for every 2-1/2 hours of driving. Years ago I would have considered that waaaay too much stop time on long trips. These days it sounds about right.

Still way too long for my tastes. I'll take the ICE on long road trips.

And actually, those mileage number were for mostly city driving. Adjust for bad BEV mileage at highway speeds and it's probably more like 120 miles (1.5-2 hours).

 

[Billyk24]

Still way too long for my tastes. I'll take the ICE on long road trips.

And actually, those mileage number were for mostly city driving. Adjust for bad BEV mileage at highway speeds and it's probably more like 120 miles (1.5-2 hours).

And colder weather will knock off more mileage and slow charging speeds

 

[dbsb3233]

For the extended range rear wheel drive, I will trust your math but it looks good to me.

When comparing the MME against the Audi e-tron, I prefer to use the extended range all-wheel drive version since that is probably the closest comparison to the big German.

189mi is the 70% mileage for the AWD ER so knock off a few miles from each of your 10 min RWD numbers and we're there.

To Audi's credit, the e-tron can get to 100% in 40 minutes.

Yes, the Audi charge curve is the stellar exception. Not sure how they managed such a full charge curve for so long. It's definitely the outlier. But compared to most everyone else, the MME looks fairly typical.

And if talking the MME AWD ER, need to drop 10% off that 153 mile/first 30 minutes estimate (thus 138). (That's just my extrapolation from the Ford press release.)

 

[silverelan]

That equates to a 30 minute stop for every 2-1/2 hours of driving. Years ago I would have considered that waaaay too much stop time on long trips. These days it sounds about right.

Let's say the AWD ER gets 200 miles of range driving 70mph on 90% of the battery.

If you stop at about 150 mi into the first leg of a long-distance drive (say 500 miles), for 10 to 15 minutes you would add 40 or 50 miles of range. You would continue on for another hundred miles or so before stopping for a longer break of 30 to 45 minutes.

Leg 1) 150 miles
10-15 min break + charge to add 40-50 miles
Leg 2) 100 miles
30-45 min break + charge to add 150-189 miles
Leg 3) 150 miles
10-15 min break + charge
Leg 4) 100 miles

So that's 500 mi of driving with two 15-minute breaks and a 45-minute lunch break. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

 

[dbsb3233]

And colder weather will knock off more mileage and slow charging speeds

Yep. And we never don't have climate control on. I don't plan to change that when getting a Mach-e. I'm not spending 50k+ on a vehicle and then feel like I need to scrimp on A/C or heat.

But around home that's not a problem, as I should have plenty of battery to run everything like normal off a nightly charge.

 

[silverelan]

And colder weather will knock off more mileage and slow charging speeds

Heck, doesn't even have to be cold. You'll lose 10% just from rain.

 

[dbsb3233]

Let's say the AWD ER gets 200 miles of range driving 70mph on 90% of the battery.

If you stop at about 150 mi into the first leg of a long-distance drive (say 500 miles), for 10 to 15 minutes you would add 40 or 50 miles of range. You would continue on for another hundred miles or so before stopping for a longer break of 30 to 45 minutes.

Leg 1) 150 miles
10-15 min break + charge to add 40-50 miles
Leg 2) 100 miles
30-45 min break + charge to add 150-189 miles
Leg 3) 150 miles
10-15 min break + charge
Leg 4) 100 miles

So that's 500 mi of driving with two 15-minute breaks and a 45-minute lunch break. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Theoretically, yes. You've run the last 3 legs down to 10% battery, which is ideal for squeezing more recharging miles in faster. But finding charging stations at those points along the route might be tough. I suspect most routes won't have stations spaced so well, thus stops with 20% or 30% left will be more necessary. Which could mean adding an additional stop, and taking longer to charge since you can't get down into that sweet spot of the charge curve as often (where it charges fastest).

Plus the more charging stops you add, the more likely they won't all be right on the interstate. Might have to add an extra 10 minutes each way off the interstate to get to that EA station at a suburban Walmart.

And of course you need to make sure there's a charger at your destination (preferably L2 overnight) to get up to 100% for the return trip where you repeat it all again.

I'm not trying to nitpick it per se, but a lot of routes are going to be less than that ideal. I suspect that 1:15 of extra time could easily grow to 2:30 on a less perfect route.

 

[EVer]

FYI your units are hosed, as is the math.

kWh refers to the quantity of energy transferred, not the rate at which energy was transferred.
70% of 98kWh in 45 minutes equates to an average rate of 91.4kW.

98kW average for 1 hour would get you 98kWh.

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