Prospective Buyer without ability to charge at home

[praxiscat]

You are essentially in the worst case scenario for EV ownership at this point. It *can* work, but the people who are happiest with EVs charge at home or at work. The people who have to rely on DCFC or public chargers for all of their charging needs are the least likely to buy another EV. DCFC is quite expensive, and you would probably come out ahead with a hybrid for now. If you really, really want an EV, research your nearby fast charging stations. VW offers a few years of free EA access with their new EVs, and the Tesla Supercharging network is the current gold standard.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/ev-owners-switch-gas-power-study/

I firmly disagree, this really depends on your area, and the areas infrastructure. It sounds like they are in an area with really good charging infrastructure so they should be fine. Again, for those in areas with less than stellar infrastructure it would be a struggle. This is where there is a big "it depends". This is why I advise people who don't have direct experience with this from making blanket advice on the subject matter if they don't have at home charging. It depends on local charging infrastructure.

So this is the way I would put it.
1. Do you live in a major metro area with good to great charging infrastructure? - No you don't need at home charging.
2. Is the climate closer to warm-weather as supposed to very cold? - The colder the climate, the more at home charging or an indoor garage is recommended. But even then people make due if the local charging infrastructure is robust.

Again...those that feel it is a necessity don't live in major cities I have noticed on the coastal areas where not having at home charging is totally doable. It really does depend on the individuals use case. This case they seem to have a great number of both L2 and DCFC near where they live. So they are a good case where at home charging is not a necessity.

This person is a good example of somebody who doesn't need at home charging because they do live in an area with a rather robust public charging. So you are not just offering bad advice, but wrong advice in this case. I am speaking from direct experience. When they have readily available public chargers like this case, they will be happy with an EV without having at home charging.

Likewise the people who were least happy with EV ownership have been people who owned lower range early Nissan Leafs and Plugin Electric Hybrids (PHEV) which have short electric ranges. THOSE are the people who were most likely to switch. Lower range electric vehicles. People who had higher range vehicles like the MME, who lived in areas with robust charging networks like OP, were actually pretty happy with their purchases.

My advice. Be happy, get a Mustang Mach E, and do not get a PHEV (these are the people LEAST satisfied). You have good public electric infrastructure near you. You don't need at home charging.

Sponsored

 

[dbsb3233]

Anyway, I'm not saying you should get a BEV. I'm saying that you likely can get one.
In the end though, a short lease PHEV could be a good move for you to test the waters.

It may be possible to make it work, but I sure wouldn't want to without home (or maybe work) charging. It's a bigger chore (worse than gas to always refuel at a retail charger), and it negates the whole $$ advantage of charging at cheap residential rates (that one is saving to offset the much higher purchase price). Also isn't good for the battery to DCFC full-time.

And without home charging, I wouldn't go PHEV either. Basically without a convenient plug where you live or work, plug-in is pretty pointless.

 

[deadduck]

@op, get a hybrid and forget about charging in a apartment. You can get 45+ mpg in a good sedan hybrid, 35-40 in crossover. The overall cost will likely be less too, depending on what you buy. It might not be as fun, or fast, but the logistics in your case will make up for it.

 

[theo1000]

I was wondering if anyone else has a MME in a similar situation as me and if the forum in general had any advice on whether i should go with a BEV or try something like a PHEV or Hybrid?

As usual there is a lot of negative noise from folks who have never actually tried it. It is night and day compared to just 3 years ago and if anything the charger density gets better every day. Just last week EA announced they will double their network.

I spent 38 days this spring living in hotel rooms, 800 miles from home in the South/Midwest of the country. Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas mostly. I was actually in my Etron which has much less range than the MachE. I was driving about 50-100 miles each day, not counting the long distance drives. I DCFC charged about 2-3 times a week, many were actually 50kw and I still had absolutely no issues. It all comes down to the infrastructure around you and your ability to stay with-in it. In most towns I mapped 2-3 DCFC units within 10-15 miles of me and anytime I needed a top up I would hit one of them for 20-30 minutes. Honestly most times it wasn't enough time to even get a starbucks before the car would be done, eventually I just stayed with the car and shot off a couple of emails and then I would be over 90%.

I also wouldn't worry about 2-3 DCFC charges a week despite the negative talk here. Keep in mind that a MachE being driven on the freeway actually discharges at about 30-40 kwh per hour which is essentially a DC fast charge type rate. Every day! All these guys advising against DCFC are still subjecting their own cars to the same thing they advise against, everyday! Your DCFC is not likely to put too much additional strain. Ford is super conservative on the charge curve and with normal DD type use you are well within their bubble.

One other thing. Folks are going on about the expense without considering that spending $2000 on a Condo EVSE would get you ~ 5000 kwh DCFC on even an expensive ~ 40 cent / kwh charging. At 15 cents/kwh after tax, low condo electricity charge that is another $800 for the electricity itself for a total of $2800. That is the equivalent of 30,000 miles on a carefully driven MachE. So there are many circumstances where its cheaper to DCFC and skip the expense of Condo EVSE.

Oh! I do not recommend a Hybrid either, despite the fact I have several serial hybrids. With Hybrids you end up with all the negatives of both drive trains with few of the positives. Go either full EV or Full ICE.

 

[stroszek]

Are the L2 chargers less than five minutes walk away or drive? If it’s five minutes walk that’s nothing, just keep plug it into one of those a few times a week.

People make too much of small inconveniences.

 

[Nklem]

If you cannot charge at home or work and are stuck with New England fast charge costs, remember the Mach E will be equivalent to about 31 MPG ($0.50/kWh, New England). Out West it’s a lot less, also using DCFC continuously is not good for your battery (Owners Manual). A hybrid will get you 40-50 MPG. That will change as gas cost go up. Finally my two cents, Standard Range battery is plenty. $5k for 50-75 more miles of driving is a lot, plus the up charge to premium trim and potential loss of State efficiency rebates if you exceed their MSRP limits. 50-75 miles was an $8700 or more up charge for me. In my opinion, with a charging infrastructure, not worth the 20% cost increase.

Here is a cost per 100 Mi calculator. Also, it does not include oil change costs on Ice. You will offset that cost with Speeding Tickets with the Mach E....Just Kidding.

 

[Ma9573]

It may be possible to make it work, but I sure wouldn't want to without home (or maybe work) charging. It's a bigger chore (worse than gas to always refuel at a retail charger), and it negates the whole $$ advantage of charging at cheap residential rates (that one is saving to offset the much higher purchase price). Also isn't good for the battery to DCFC full-time.

And without home charging, I wouldn't go PHEV either. Basically without a convenient plug where you live or work, plug-in is pretty pointless.

It's totally fair to not want to get a BEV if you don't have home charging. I really do get the range anxiety/fear perspective. But...

* I'm not here to to convince people unwilling to make small concessions or slight changes to routine in order to fuel/charge their vehicle that they should go electric. It's 100% not a chore once you incorporate it into your routine, but it's not for everyone. Especially those only looking to make the switch to make things more convenient by charging at home

* I'm not here to convince people they should go electric to save money on charging vs gas. It's a nice benefit for those with home charging, but I'd argue it's not the main reason many people go electric at this stage in the transition. In the end, some may do it for savings, or convenience of home charging, or performance. But many of us just want to stop spewing toxins into the atmosphere every mile we drive.

* I am here to say that it's possible to go full electric (BEV) without at home charging. In fact is easier to make it work then people who've never had to do it realize, if they're in a region with good charging infrastructure.

Oh, and even though the DCFC affect on the battery has been way overblown by some, you can do it all without needing DCFC most of the time. I've had my car 4 months and have only DC charged at Electrify America stations outside of 2 times at 50kw Chargepointv stations and 4 times at 50kw EVGOb stations. Yet I still have 240Kwh left on my initial 500kw of free charging with EA. Unless road tripping you just really won't have to do it often once you tweak your habits. In fact, I could've completely avoided DC up to this point in my Mach E ownership, since every road trip I've taken has been within the range of the vehicle one way and I've found hotels with level 2 onsite or nearby. But sometimes I just want to test it out or save some time.

 

[dbsb3233]

It's totally fair to not want to get a BEV if you don't have home charging. I really do get the range anxiety/fear perspective. But...

* I'm not here to to convince people unwilling to make small concessions or slight changes to routine in order to fuel/charge their vehicle that they should go electric. It's 100% not a chore once you incorporate it into your routine, but it's not for everyone. Especially those only looking to make the switch to make things more convenient by charging at home

* I'm not here to convince people they should go electric to save money on charging vs gas. It's a nice benefit for those with home charging, but I'd argue it's not the main reason many people go electric at this stage in the transition. In the end, some may do it for savings, or convenience of home charging, or performance. But many of us just want to stop spewing toxins into the atmosphere every mile we drive.

* I am here to say that it's possible to go full electric (BEV) without at home charging. In fact is easier to make it work then people who've never had to do it realize, if they're in a region with good charging infrastructure.

Oh, and even though the DCFC affect on the battery has been way overblown by some, you can do it all without needing DCFC most of the time. I've had my car 4 months and have only DC charged at Electrify America stations outside of 2 times at 50kw Chargepointv stations and 4 times at 50kw EVGOb stations. Yet I still have 240Kwh left on my initial 500kw of free charging with EA. Unless road tripping you just really won't have to do it often once you tweak your habits. In fact, I could've completely avoided DC up to this point in my Mach E ownership, since every road trip I've taken has been within the range of the vehicle one way and I've found hotels with level 2 onsite or nearby. But sometimes I just want to test it out or save some time.

Something you need to add extra time and effort to do and make it part of a regular routine is pretty much the definition of a chore. Like taking out the trash weekly, or mowing the lawn.

That's not to say that chores aren't possible to do, of course. But it is a chore to park blocks away from your condo (sometimes in cold/snow) rather than 90 feet away in your reserved parking spot in the lot. And it's more of a chore to do all that vs a 5 minute gas refuel.

Might some people take on that extra chore anyway to satisfy their other motivations? Of course. Some do already, like yourself. We're just offering our opinions on the pros and cons of it so that the OP has a good idea of what he might be getting into.

Ultimately only he knows his situation, and his motivations, and his willingness to make the necessary compromises involved. Is there L2 nearby, or just DCFC? Is it free, or do they charge for it (and how much)? Is it plentiful, or might it be an exercise in frustration with others tying it up when you need it (or it breaks down)? How far of a walk is it, maybe at night, sometimes in bad New England weather, compared to his nice easy parking spot next to his condo?

These are all considerations that only the OP can really answer. We're just here to help point out what may be involved. We're all making valid points, but whether it's worth or not is gonna vary greatly from person to person and situation to situation.

 

[SHOK3R]

I personally would not own an Eletric car if I didn’t have a home charger. In the future I’m sure it will get much better with public charging but now it sux.

 

[deadduck]

We should all add, it depends, to anything we say.

I live in California. Despite the really bad youtube "here's my Tesla TCO for 3 years" videos, an EV isn't cheaper here. Those videos always forget that insurance is twice an ICE vehicle for a Tesla (MME's are more normal), that they burn through tires, they're more expensive to buy (in many, but not all cases) and god help you if you have a major failure outside of warranty.

Electricity also isn't much cheaper here, because does PGE, ever, do a good thing? Unless you get solar (and I think PGE wants to lower the tax credits) or go on an EV plan which increases your rates during prime time. If you live in a place with rates of $.09/KWH then good for you.

And those tax credits, well, they just add $7,500 to the price of most EV's at the expense of more TTL. Often the markup for the vehicles is more than the credit, "hi RAV4 PRIME".

I would buy an EV because they're fast and/or fun, you want to help with CO2, you can charge at home or at work so it's convenient and you don't travel so much that rolling up to an EA charger that doesn't work doesn't bother you. If you have the right rates, and the right situation, it can also be cheaper to own, maybe significantly so.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here. I've run the numbers for my situation it all pencils out about the same depending on the vehicle.

 

[praxiscat]

Let me be clear on this. It's not only fully possible, but rather easy to have a BEV if you live in an area with robust public charging like the OP. You do not need at home charging. The people who are saying you need at home charging have absolutely no idea what they are talking about, and no experience owning a BEV in an area with robust public charging. I actually have this experience. You absolutely do not need at home charging in such a scenario.

Let me make this abundantly clear. At home charging is not necessary if you live in an area with robust public charging infrastructure. Period.

I actually do have this experience with this. Many of you who say you must own a charger don't live in areas where public chargers are basically everywhere. Many of the L2 ones are either free or very cheap.

I should mention the charge point chargers are he is mentioning are cheap level 2 chargers. They cost like $2.50 for four hours of charging. Which usually does get me to 90%.

Likewise I would definitely not recommend a plugin hybrid in such a scenario or even a regular hybrid when there is Robust public charging. An electric vehicle is a far better vehicle.

Now mind you...you have to figure out your own area to know this. But I know in this scenario where there are numerous public chargers around at home charging necessity is not just overstated but false. You will enjoy an electric car much more than a plugin hybrid or gas car.

 

[dtbaker61]

Hi,
I've been considering purchasing an electric car for a few weeks now and really love how the Mach-e looks and drives (Got a test drive of a AWD premium at the local dealership).

My main concern is that i live in a condo with a assigned parking spot but it isn't near a power outlet. I have multiple L2 chargers <5 mins from my place by Chargepoint and 2 DC chargers at a Mall 10 mins from my home. My daily commute in about 30 miles round trip, with 80-90% of it on a highway.

I was wondering if anyone else has a MME in a similar situation as me and if the forum in general had any advice on whether i should go with a BEV or try something like a PHEV or Hybrid?

if your daily round trip is only about 30 miles.... you *could* charge overnight via L1 from a 120vAC outlet.

are there any exterior outlets, or light fixtures near your parking spot that you could ADD an outlet to with Association approval? Problem of course would be that your charger would be outside and 'unlocked' unless you put it inside an enclosure.

I would suggest that you approach your Condo Board, and ask if they would allow you to install a secure enclosure, and run power from a nearby fixture. You *could* add a meter (like a kill-a-watt meter), or even a customer owned utility meter, to read monthly to pay for kWhr consumed at your local rate. The perfect situation would be if you have covered parking spots with lighting.... then you KNOW there is at least 110vAC power, you just have to pay an electrician to install enclosure, meter, and outlet.

If you rely on nearby fast-charge stations, you will be paying about 2x your local rate for your energy.... which makes it less attractive financially than charging at home or work, and forces you to hang out at charge station while charging.

Your second alternative is to ask your school/workplace/parking to install charge stations or even just regular 'unsecured' outlets for slow charge while you are at work. You could meter actual use, or pay a flat fee per day, or consider it an employee benefit. L1 charging consumes around 11 kWhr over an 8 hour workday... so $1-2/day depending on local electric rates.

 

[HDer]

Let me be clear on this. It's not only fully possible, but rather easy to have a BEV if you live in an area with robust public charging like the OP. You do not need at home charging. The people who are saying you need at home charging have absolutely no idea what they are talking about, and no experience owning a BEV in an area with robust public charging. I actually have this experience. You absolutely do not need at home charging in such a scenario.

Let me make this abundantly clear. At home charging is not necessary if you live in an area with robust public charging infrastructure. Period.

I actually do have this experience with this. Many of you who say you must own a charger don't live in areas where public chargers are basically everywhere. Many of the L2 ones are either free or very cheap.

I should mention the charge point chargers are he is mentioning are cheap level 2 chargers. They cost like $2.50 for four hours of charging. Which usually does get me to 90%.

Likewise I would definitely not recommend a plugin hybrid in such a scenario or even a regular hybrid when there is Robust public charging. An electric vehicle is a far better vehicle.

Now mind you...you have to figure out your own area to know this. But I know in this scenario where there are numerous public chargers around at home charging necessity is not just overstated but false. You will enjoy an electric car much more than a plugin hybrid or gas car.

We live next to Chargepoint HQ and their chargers at their HQ cost 25 cents per kWH. EA with their 4 dollar a month membership plan costs 31 cents per kWH. Most other chargepoint stations in our area cost 30 cents or more per kWH.

So assuming we charged every day at ChargePoint HQ our cost for charging to full would be $22 dollars or $7.33 per 100 miles. Gas is 3.89 a gallon so that works out to 53 mpg. If we charged at EA with their 4 dollar a month membership it works out to be 43mpg. But those are the cheapest options. The plug closest to my house costs 41 cents per kWH minimum.

 

[HDer]

Also, interesting to note. PG&E costs $0.33/kWH for me right now. There's a maximum efficiency of around 85% according to a source I read. I haven't tested the real world efficiency of the Ford charger at 120v. So that means, to the battery, it costs me at least $0.38/kWH, which means I'm only getting maximum 34.7mpge charging at home. Which is still better than what I was getting before, but nowhere near say a Prius.

 

[HDer]

Also I'm a bit confused by the EPA's kWh/100 miles. If I calculate based on a 88kWh battery and 305 mile range, that works out to be 28.8 kWh/100 miles. But the EPA says 33kWh/100 miles. So if the EPA's 33 is right, then my mpge figures should go up by around 15%.

Sponsored