November 3rd 2021 Revised Tax incentives for EVs from House of Reps.

[Larry Paul]

I note it was stated about MSRP…but what about options - do they count or only the base price of the vehicle.

What about actual sale price. I would think the price out the door would be what matters most.

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[Draconfier]

I note it was stated about MSRP…but what about options - do they count or only the base price of the vehicle.

What about actual sale price. I would think the price out the door would be what matters most.

Think it falls under final MSRP not base.

 

[Draconfier]

The VIN says that the MME is an SUV. The tax credit form uses the VIN for establishing eligibility.

Per the fordvinlookup.com website:

Body Class

Sport Utility Vehicle (SUV)/Multi-Purpose Vehicle (MPV)

Only issue with a VIN classification is it falls under NHSTA.

They say similar to EPA

I pulled this from the EPA website where the Mach-E is classified as a station wagon (WTH!) That would put the Mach-e in the same classification as the Bolt, Leaf, etc. But the Y, the ID4, get classified as a small Suv?

Maybe Mike Levine from Ford can shedsome light in this and possibly get it straightened out.
https://twitter.com/mrlevine?s=20
@Ford Motor Company

 

[kennethjk]

No

See attached picture from Bill
"Similar" it does not say using EPA designations.

Yes it does say similar. -resembling without being identical.- if EPA says it’s something that probably what they will call it but as someone below says the VIN says it’s an SUV which is good news.

 

[llinthicum1]

This bill is hanging by a tread in Congress. There's a real good chance that it does not get passed. And that's unfortunate. BEVs are a political issue along with global warming. It's no longer whether it's good policy or not, it depends on what political party is in control. There's no doubt BEVs will eventually get there, but not in the time frame that any of us want.

 

[kennethjk]

This bill is hanging by a tread in Congress. There's a real good chance that it does not get passed. And that's unfortunate. BEVs are a political issue along with global warming. It's no longer whether it's good policy or not, it depends on what political party is in control. There's no doubt BEVs will eventually get there, but not in the time frame that any of us want.

So right. Still a long way to go before anything gets approved and into law.

 

[Psalm139]

Man, this thread really blew up. Super interesting discussion.

I don't like the classification limit (SUV vs. Car) for two reasons.
1. The first is what we are arguing about. How do you decide what is what? Motortrend has wrestled with this for years and now says "If the makers calls it an SUV we believe it is an SUV." The previous bill made distinctions between SUVs and trucks which is even harder.

2. Why is the limit higher for SUVs and trucks? "Because they are more expensive" you say.
But they are more expensive because you get more. With SUVs you get the luxuries of space and higher ride height. Why isn't there a higher threshold for luxury cars.

They MSRP threshold should be the same regardless of the vehicle type.

 

[generaltso]

Why is the limit higher for SUVs and trucks?

I don't agree with it, but I think a case could be made that a person buying an electric truck or SUV is one less person buying an ICE truck or SUV. And since ICE trucks and SUVs typically use more gas and pollute more than ICE cars, the incentive is higher. There are lots of flaws in that argument, but I can see it being made.

 

[DRuth086]

No, its no longer treated that way, it doesn't take in to account your tax liability, just your AGI either Married/Joint, HOH, or Single. With the ability to assign the credit towards the purchase price.

So they're treating it differently in this new bill? Interesting. I think that that is what they need to do along with direct rebates for people to move the dial to adoption.

 

[Lord Polymath]

I haven't completely worked out how the $7500 incentive works, or if I'll get it. Now I'm even more confused! I guess I need to think about it being a huge "icing on the cake" scenario. I've put in an order for an awesome car. If I get an incentive, great!

 

[lwilliams0514]

End of December huh? Wonder if I’ll get my car by then. Does this supersede the $7500 tax rebate or is it in combination with?

It would replace the $7500 tax credit with money up front. The MME is built in Mexico so you would loose the $4500 but get everything else. The F150 Lightning would get the whole thing as it will be built at Ford's Dearborn Plant in MI.

 

[Twuntish]

I think better off put a deposit for a Tesla model Y too. Depending on the situation we can take the ONE. We will loose either of the deposit amounts (250 tesla - 500 mach e) (which is not a bad idea I think)

My preference will always be MachE

FYI - The Tesla $250 isn’t a deposit, it’s a fee. Not refundable and also doesn’t apply to the purchase of the car.

 

[RickMachE]

I haven't completely worked out how the $7500 incentive works, or if I'll get it. Now I'm even more confused! I guess I need to think about it being a huge "icing on the cake" scenario. I've put in an order for an awesome car. If I get an incentive, great!

Pull out your last year's tax return. Look at the number on line 24 (back of the form). Assuming last year and this year are identical, if that number is $7,500 or more, you're all set. If it's say $3,000, then you're going to give up $4,500 of the credit.

It's not an incentive (technically). It's a non-refundable tax credit.

 

[Mach1E]

Man, this thread really blew up. Super interesting discussion.

I don't like the classification limit (SUV vs. Car) for two reasons.
1. The first is what we are arguing about. How do you decide what is what? Motortrend has wrestled with this for years and now says "If the makers calls it an SUV we believe it is an SUV." The previous bill made distinctions between SUVs and trucks which is even harder.

2. Why is the limit higher for SUVs and trucks? "Because they are more expensive" you say.
But they are more expensive because you get more. With SUVs you get the luxuries of space and higher ride height. Why isn't there a higher threshold for luxury cars.

They MSRP threshold should be the same regardless of the vehicle type.

An interesting thought about SUVs-

Of this bill is about saving the environment, convincing people to buy a BEV SUV vs an ICE probably does more than going from a car to a BEV car.

Counterargument- if it’s about saving the environment and convincing people to make the switch, what difference does the MSRP make? Shouldnt we try to incentivize everyone?

If anything, the more expensive an ICE is, typically the worse it is for the environment.

Just food for thought.

 

[ChuckA]

Only issue with a VIN classification is it falls under NHSTA.

They say similar to EPA

I pulled this from the EPA website where the Mach-E is classified as a station wagon (WTH!) That would put the Mach-e in the same classification as the Bolt, Leaf, etc. But the Y, the ID4, get classified as a small Suv?

Maybe Mike Levine from Ford can shedsome light in this and possibly get it straightened out.
https://twitter.com/mrlevine?s=20
@Ford Motor Company

I checked. You obviously researched more thoroughly the me. The MME is not a station wagon.

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