AWD better in Midwest

DennisD

Well-Known Member
First Name
Dennis
Joined
Nov 26, 2021
Threads
11
Messages
1,214
Reaction score
1,508
Location
Omaha Nebraska
Vehicles
2022 Mustang Mach E
Occupation
Driving School Instructor
Country flag
It doesn't have 4wd. It has awd. There is a difference. You need to learn how it utilizes the drive axles, and how traction control kicks in.
Does the MME have full time or part time AWD?
Sponsored

 

frontrunner

Well-Known Member
First Name
John
Joined
Oct 7, 2021
Threads
0
Messages
92
Reaction score
78
Location
NJ
Vehicles
2022 Iced Blue Silver Premium AWD
Country flag
Maybe the hardest part to remember is we only have the ground clearance of a “real Mustang”. About 5”. And nice and low on the front are those motorized cooling vents.
Exactly this. 5" is not very much clearance. These are not SUV's. They're essentially fancy station wagons, of which I'm excited to be purchasing.
 

tuminatr

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brian
Joined
Apr 22, 2020
Threads
51
Messages
2,185
Reaction score
2,222
Location
Saint Paul,MN
Vehicles
2021 MME GTPE
Occupation
sales
Country flag
Does the MME have full time or part time AWD?
AWD on EVs is completely different than AWD on a ICE. An ICE has a single engine and a transfer case that connects both front and rear differentials. An EV like the mach e essential has two independent drive systems one in the front and one in the back. The traction control controls the AWD and can react much faster than a transfer case allows. Simply put it works real good.

Having owned a few RWD mustangs and living in MN I can say you can get around with rear drive only but I prefer AWD. There is a big difference In traction. If you are the personal n that needs go get somewhere regardless of the weather get the AWD if you are like my dad and if it gets real bad you can stay home and wait for the plows to go through the RWD is OK.

The other point on resale in the Midwest is important because the average driver wants AWD.

My dad and I have had the AWD discussion he says it's a luxury, I said kind of but like air conditioning in the summer. You technically don't need it but it's real nice.
 
Last edited:

DrSteveBrule

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2021
Threads
0
Messages
114
Reaction score
93
Location
MN
Vehicles
n/a
Country flag
Traction control wasn't a thing in the 70s. Its a game changer--especially on EVs the motor reacts much faster in an EV and thus traction control in EVs is much better than an ICE.
This gets repeated a lot, but I don't think there's any truth to it. I'm happy to be corrected, though. As far as I know, EV traction control relies on the same individual wheel braking + open differential effect as ICE vehicles. Sure, there's instant torque, but traction control is more about slowing down wheels with no traction. If you have motors at each wheel like a Rivian or Hummer EV, things are potentially very different and you could reap the benefits of electrification for better traction.
 

tuminatr

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brian
Joined
Apr 22, 2020
Threads
51
Messages
2,185
Reaction score
2,222
Location
Saint Paul,MN
Vehicles
2021 MME GTPE
Occupation
sales
Country flag
This gets repeated a lot, but I don't think there's any truth to it. I'm happy to be corrected, though. As far as I know, EV traction control relies on the same individual wheel braking + open differential effect as ICE vehicles. Sure, there's instant torque, but traction control is more about slowing down wheels with no traction. If you have motors at each wheel like a Rivian or Hummer EV, things are potentially very different and you could reap the benefits of electrification for better traction.
Even the Mach E has a motor at the front and a motor in the back. This is potentially better than one motor and a transfer case
 


JamieGeek

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2019
Threads
82
Messages
3,589
Reaction score
6,823
Location
Southeastern Michigan
Website
spareelectrons.wordpress.com
Vehicles
Escape PHEV, old: Mach-E, Bolt, C-Max Energi, Focus Electric
Country flag
This gets repeated a lot, but I don't think there's any truth to it. I'm happy to be corrected, though. As far as I know, EV traction control relies on the same individual wheel braking + open differential effect as ICE vehicles. Sure, there's instant torque, but traction control is more about slowing down wheels with no traction. If you have motors at each wheel like a Rivian or Hummer EV, things are potentially very different and you could reap the benefits of electrification for better traction.
The important part of traction control isn't slowing down, its getting moving from a stop (at least if you don't want to get stuck). In that case grabbing a brake to get the other wheel spinning does help a lot.

As far as slowing down: ICE vehicles have a lot of rotating mass with momentum. When the TC backs off the throttle the ICE doesn't slow down immediately. In an EV cutting power will slow down quicker and if the TC wants to slow the motor down faster it can use regen. E.g. the TC has a lot more precise control over what the motor does to the axle. Combine that with the standard "stop one side with the brakes" and it becomes very effective.
 

ARK

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2020
Threads
45
Messages
2,938
Reaction score
4,297
Location
Los Angeles
Vehicles
'21 Premium SR AWD
Country flag
I just purchased a MME P with 4wd. I live in Green Bay. Not impressed, with inclement weather handling.
Part of it is the relatively narrow tires and the weight. I find it’s not too hard to break the Mach-E into a slide on turns when the road is wet. On the other hand, I think the weight and relatively narrow tires decrease the risk of hydroplaning, all that weight concentrated in a relatively small area, makes it harder for the vehicle to lift up over water.
 

tuminatr

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brian
Joined
Apr 22, 2020
Threads
51
Messages
2,185
Reaction score
2,222
Location
Saint Paul,MN
Vehicles
2021 MME GTPE
Occupation
sales
Country flag
I just purchased a MME P with 4wd. I live in Green Bay. Not impressed, with inclement weather handling.
That's more about the tires, put one of many all-weather or winter tires on and you will be.


And I agree with folks saying turn on whisper mode and off one pedal drive in deep snow
 

DrSteveBrule

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2021
Threads
0
Messages
114
Reaction score
93
Location
MN
Vehicles
n/a
Country flag
The important part of traction control isn't slowing down, its getting moving from a stop (at least if you don't want to get stuck). In that case grabbing a brake to get the other wheel spinning does help a lot.

As far as slowing down: ICE vehicles have a lot of rotating mass with momentum. When the TC backs off the throttle the ICE doesn't slow down immediately. In an EV cutting power will slow down quicker and if the TC wants to slow the motor down faster it can use regen. E.g. the TC has a lot more precise control over what the motor does to the axle. Combine that with the standard "stop one side with the brakes" and it becomes very effective.
I guess I'm just not convinced that it's significantly more effective. I've had ICE cars that primarily did traction control by cutting throttle. Obviously that alone is not very effective, especially if you're stuck. Maybe it can keep you from spinning out. Then the brake-based traction control systems seemed to become the norm, which seem to be helpful in more situations.

Granted, these are artificial conditions, but you don't see mainstream EVs do better in the roller tests done by TFLCar or Car Question. In general, it seems like cars like the Mach E or Model Y do worse than Subarus or Audis when perhaps that shouldn't be the case. If the more precise control over axle speed that can then be modulated side-to-side was such an advantage, why don't we see better results? Most AWD EVs need to be pushed off the rollers with 3 wheels artificially "stuck."
 

tuminatr

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brian
Joined
Apr 22, 2020
Threads
51
Messages
2,185
Reaction score
2,222
Location
Saint Paul,MN
Vehicles
2021 MME GTPE
Occupation
sales
Country flag
I guess I'm just not convinced that it's significantly more effective. I've had ICE cars that primarily did traction control by cutting throttle. Obviously that alone is not very effective, especially if you're stuck. Maybe it can keep you from spinning out. Then the brake-based traction control systems seemed to become the norm, which seem to be helpful in more situations.

Granted, these are artificial conditions, but you don't see mainstream EVs do better in the roller tests done by TFLCar or Car Question. In general, it seems like cars like the Mach E or Model Y do worse than Subarus or Audis when perhaps that shouldn't be the case. If the more precise control over axle speed that can then be modulated side-to-side was such an advantage, why don't we see better results? Most AWD EVs need to be pushed off the rollers with 3 wheels artificially "stuck."
Simple answer, most of the cars that do better have limited slip differtials. To the best of my knowledge the mach e and Tesla's don't
 

DrSteveBrule

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2021
Threads
0
Messages
114
Reaction score
93
Location
MN
Vehicles
n/a
Country flag
Simple answer, most of the cars that do better have limited slip differtials. To the best of my knowledge the mach e and Tesla's don't
Among current Subarus, Only WRX STIs have LSDs. In Audis, it's mostly S-series. So there's no inherent mechanical advantage among many cars that seem to test better.
 

mlhunt856

Well-Known Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
Jul 6, 2021
Threads
5
Messages
158
Reaction score
117
Location
Gloucester Co, NJ
Vehicles
2021 Premium 4X, 2021 GT
Country flag
"practice stopping, starting, and accelerating in a big empty snow covered parking lot." Agree, I do this after the 1st snowfall every winter, even in my various Subaru's I have had. Just to get the feel for how to control a slide and how hard you can accelerate and brake.
Especially important for a new car that has driving dynamics you aren't familiar with. I don't do this every year but I do try to do it a couple times every time I get a new car.
 

ARK

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2020
Threads
45
Messages
2,938
Reaction score
4,297
Location
Los Angeles
Vehicles
'21 Premium SR AWD
Country flag
Especially important for a new car that has driving dynamics you aren't familiar with. I don't do this every year but I do try to do it a couple times every time I get a new car.
I wish more people would do this. It was raining in SoCal over the last few days, and you get broadly two types of bad drivers. One, those who will continue to drive 50mph in a 30mph zone, aggressively tailgate, totally oblivious to the degraded road conditions. Two, those who will drive like rain = ice on the roads, and will crawl along at 15mph in a 25mph zone.

Both groups could benefit from seeing how much or how little their car’s performance degrades in bad weather, whether they are too confident or too skittish.
 

mccdeuce

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Dec 23, 2021
Threads
11
Messages
259
Reaction score
254
Location
Millersville, MD
Vehicles
2019 VW e-Golf, 2022 MME Cal RT1 IBSM
Country flag
While heading out to Tahoe for detour on way to a work conference, a snowstorm came as we got our work issued rental car. A Nissan VERSA. Well being young and stupid wanting to go skiing we bought some chains for that little car and off we went. After putting the chains on we proceeded nice and steady at a safe speed.

We had Jeep Wranglers, Subarus and plenty of other AWD vehicles pass us going quite fast. Little engine that could, kept on chugging. Low and behold plenty of those exact same vehicles were spun out on the side of the road a little later on, some being damaged to the point where they would not make it to their destination.

When living overseas, we had to take an Ice Driving course. You would do a course in a normal sedan at 40kmh. No issues. Then you would be asked to drive the same course at 45kmh... 5kmh made all the difference.

Someone else mentioned it, but how you drive is one of the most important aspects, but also recognizing the total package of your vehicle matters as well. ie: Once we got to Tahoe, we weren't going anywhere for a couple days as we just did not have the clearance for a snow build up.

IMO - the MME is a beautiful road car. The AWD first and foremost is about performance, and on a secondary will assist you in some mild adverse conditions. One has to consider the mission: If you want the 100% reliability for snow and off road conditions you should be looking at the F-150 lightning.

My 2cents as an informed safe driver.
 

bosbruce

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bruce
Joined
Mar 20, 2021
Threads
2
Messages
49
Reaction score
53
Location
Bedford, Massachusetts
Vehicles
00 Boxster S,(prior M3P,Mach E,Taycan), 23 Plaid S
Country flag
I'm trying to decide which option would be the best. I live in Indianapolis where we have snow although not a lot and generally not often. Has anyone living in the midwest gotten the RWD and if so how did it work out in the snow? Would I be better off with the AWD?
First, RWD EVs have FAR better traction than typical ICE RWD vehicles, in part because the weight is usually 50% over the driven wheels, and in part because traction control is hundreds of times more precise since direct motor can help control things way faster/better than the typical ICE RWD where long drivetrain takes eons to react (even in manual tranny) though brakes are about as quick.

Second, as someone else mentioned, having a good set of winter tires almost always makes you safer than having AWD in the snow. And, if you need more traction in accelerating you can always put a sand bag or two in the trunk to give you closer to the traction of AWD.

Third, I chose RWD in my Mach E because I wanted Premium and I wanted to get the added range (IIRC AWD took away 15 miles) of RWD and also still get the $2500 MA EV rebate keeping the sticker under $50k. I would have gotten AWD mostly for the performance advantage if it didn't hurt range so much and if choosing it didn't also lose me that rebate in addition to the price bump. (Adding AWD+ bigger battery to me also just makes the car way too heavy)

Fourth, with RWD I can turn off traction control (man that setting is finicky though... not sure why sometimes it refuses to change even when I'm in P) and do the smoothest, quietest donuts in a snow covered parking lot of any car I've ever owned. Can AWD / GT / GT PE Mach E do donuts? Certainly should be possible but I'm not aware of that ability.
Sponsored

 
 







Top