Charging Costs (on the road)

[voxel]

Not sure if there has been a thread on charging costs?

One of the main benefits of a electric motor over an ICE is they are generally 2-3 times more efficient. That should equate to a 60-70% reduction in energy related running costs; which is true if you charge at home. However many of the fast charging stations are asking ridiculous rates compared to the actual electricity costs in the local market.

For instance here in Florida electricity is generally around 0:10 cents a kWh; at that rate there is a big financial benefits driving an EV over an ICE. Many of the fast charge stations in Florida charge up to 0:43 cents a kWh; at that rate the cost per mile is very similar to an ICE. I feel some of the national charging networks are practically price gouging. A 300-350% mark up over the price of the electricity in the local market is extreme profiteering. Gas stations generally make 5-8% profit per gallon.

This unrestricted profiteering doesn't really effect me personally because we charge using excess solar at home and free chargers my wife's work. But high rates at charging stations are going to impact a lot of people and be a prohibitive factor in the adoption of EVs. This issue need addressing nationally and caps need to be implemented on the mark ups above local electricity costs.

The combination of large upfront costs and low throughput (number of EVs that can charge per hour) means they have to charge significantly more than home rates.

My opinion is EV charge rates are TOO cheap and not attracting capital investment and thus we need government subsidies, credits, grants etc.

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[Logal727]

You can't really compare partially charging at EV to filling a car/SUV up with gas; especially when you're using temporarily high gas prices. Our Jeep Grand Cherokee costs around $90 to fill up right now with gas prices at artificially high rates. However a full tank in the Jeep gets us around 540 miles on the highway. Bottom line is energy costs for an EV should be significantly lower than an ICE.

Sure there are infrastructure costs but that also applies for new gas stations. Once a charging station is up and running it has minimal overheads compared to a gas station.

Yeah that will happen when there are as many DCFC as there are gas stations

 

[Logal727]

There are no off peak rates in Florida.

Yeah, our government couldn’t care less about renewable energy or helping people with lower costs, just look what they did to solar here

 

[mjs020294]

The combination of large upfront costs and low throughput (number of EVs that can charge per hour) means they have to charge significantly more than home rates.

My opinion is EV charge rates are TOO cheap and not attracting capital investment and thus we need government subsidies, credits, grants etc.

There definitely needs to be a more holistic approach to the charging network. Power companies are pushing back on net metering because the supply exceeds the demand during the day. Maybe the solution for the power companies is get more involved in EV charging with chargers in locations primarily used during peak solar hours like offices and highway charging stations. Its a viable alternative to battery farms in terms of costs; especially when they can charge at premium rates and still be significantly cheaper than some of the current networks.

 

[timbop]

Yeah, our government couldn’t care less about renewable energy or helping people with lower costs, just look what they did to solar here

It could be that the altruistic oil companies have spent a fortune on campaign contributions to save your fellow citizens from dangerous renewable energy and polluting electric cars.

 

[Sully11740]

I haven't seen a single pump yet in my life handle more than 6 or 7 cars an hour.

I live in Metro NY on Long Island; there are NUMEROUS places (especially BJs and Costco) where it's easy to see pumps handle over 10 cars per hour. My Premium ER AWD is just a gleam in my eye since my 11/17/2021 order was submitted so I don't have any experience with electric chargers.

 

[AKgrampy]

It will be interesting to see how the installation of chargers play out over time. One of the ways that costs may drop on commercial chargers is if the capacity factor goes up. I see demand charges mentioned sometimes as if they are an evil thing. In most cases a commercial load will have a lower cost than residential if their capacity factor is high enough. What I am interested to see is will more and more chargers be installed with low Capacity Factors (keeping commercial charging costs higher than residential) or will more EV’S increase the CF of existing infrastructure which would eventually bring charging costs down to approaching residential rates. Where (maybe when) this will even begin to be more interesting is as more people move to EV’S and they do not have the ability to charge at home such as apartment dwellers. Then instead of the gas versus charge cost comparisons you will see the complaints about varying charging cost rates. I can’t even imagine some of the societal issues that will be raised because of this in the future! One thing I do know is it will make for some good reading here on the forums as we continue to move forward!

 

[Logal727]

It could be that the altruistic oil companies have spent a fortune on campaign contributions to save your fellow citizens from dangerous renewable energy and polluting electric cars.

Yeah the latest bill that is messing up solar was written by FPL

 

[tesla2mme]

You can't really compare partially charging at EV to filling a car/SUV up with gas; especially when you're using temporarily high gas prices. Our Jeep Grand Cherokee costs around $90 to fill up right now with gas prices at artificially high rates. However a full tank in the Jeep gets us around 540 miles on the highway. Bottom line is energy costs for an EV should be significantly lower than an ICE.

Sure there are infrastructure costs but that also applies for new gas stations. Once a charging station is up and running it has minimal overheads compared to a gas station.

Temporarily high gas prices?

Lol… these are here to stay.

 

[TRP]

Temporarily high gas prices?

Lol… these are here to stay.

Because oil figures once you get used to the high price they can drop a tiny bit and you are now very happy at the new low price that is still higher than the previously high price you were paying before they went up to the ridiculously high price you were complaining about a few minutes ago.....Whew....that was a breathful

 

[mjs020294]

Temporarily high gas prices?

Lol… these are here to stay.

Oil and wholesale gas prices have risen exponentially since the Russian build up on the Ukraine border and subsequent invasion. Wholesale gasoline is up around $1:20, which would equate to adding $1:50 a gallon when factoring in taxes and retail mark ups.

Demand destruction, increased oil production and hopefully a ceasefire in Ukraine will drop price back down to around $3 a gallon at the pumps.

 

[ChuckA]

Well at least the ROI on solar is pretty quick when you have to pay the PC $0:27 kWh. Getting solar was a bordline financial decision for us because the pay back is nearly ten years.

Wish I did the solar after getting the EV. I pay for usage so there’s no pay back involved. 25 yrs, it’s mine for $1. But that will be the next owners problem. I’m old.

 

[mccdeuce]

Installing DCFC is not that different from installing a gas station fuel pump. (underground storage tanks, fuel management systems, POS systems, fire suppression systems....)
Average profit at the pump is 5 cents a gallon. lets say 5k gallons a day, profit is $250 a day. Now a Coin-operated air machine is probably bringing in $10 a day with a lot less overhead....

"44% of gas station consumers go inside... in-store sales make up around two-thirds of a store’s overall profits"

The model of DCFC needs to change. A convenience store may not be the answer, but if you can install EV stations of various speeds and have amenities that people will utilize - the amenities bring in the profit, then you have a solution to keeping the electrons cheaper, just like gas. I personally would rather have a tasty coffee than sit in the back of a Walmart parking lot.

https://www.convenience.org/topics/fuels/documents/how-consumers-react-to-gas-prices.pdf
https://blog.deltaww.com/en/energyi...yokohama-ev-charging-stations-idemitsu-kosan/

 

[dml105]

I haven't seen a single pump yet in my life handle more than 6 or 7 cars an hour.

All the fuel tanks would have to be less than 15 gallons and all paying exact cash. No delays. No drivers leaving their cars and no snack bars. You a proposing the hypothetical NASCAR station that doesn't exist.

I think people underestimate how much time they spend at a gas station, particularly when they are comparing refill times against charging times.

 

[timbop]

Yeah the latest bill that is messing up solar was written by FPL

Yes, they too are just worried about those poor customers without solar who have to make up for lost revenue so the CEO can buy a new yacht. It's almost like they are trying to kill home solar so they don't lose customers ?.

They better watch it with gutting the net metering regulations; that will push solar customers to get batteries rather than pay through the nose for panels plus offpeak electricity. As of right now the utilities actually have a good deal - they are getting free electricity during peak usage (so they don't have to fire up expensive peaker plants) and can repay those solar customers with cheaper off-peak generated electricity.

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