Is the Mach-E really 7 years behind Tesla?

[Woeo]

Many of us do not live in mild areas, however. I never said I wanted a heat pump to be forced on people who don't want it.

But when I'm driving hundreds of miles a day in the snow, some extra range wouldn't go amiss.

Are you than ill informed? How many of your neighbors heat their homes with heat pump systems? Heat Pump systems are designed for mild climates. As the ambient temperature drops near freezing the 'cost' of pulling heat from the frigid air approaches that of employing resistive heat.

You will gain range at 50°. You will break even at freezing. You will lose range at 20° and be cold. In the meantime it is a more complicated system that weighs more than its predecessor.

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[Nak]

Are you than ill informed? How many of your neighbors heat their homes with heat pump systems? Heat Pump systems are designed for mild climates. As the ambient temperature drops near freezing the 'cost' of pulling heat from the frigid air approaches that of employing resistive heat.

You might want to research modern heat pumps before you accuse others of being ill informed. Your statement might have been true a few decades ago. Here you go: Geothermal heat pump

You will gain range at 50°. You will break even at freezing. You will lose range at 20° and be cold. In the meantime it is a more complicated system that weighs more than its predecessor.

Five statements, each incorrect. You might want to read the last few pages of this thread. All of this has already been covered.

 

[trutolife27]

So u know I had to find some answers out about this heat pump. Made some called and emails.
here we go.

The car still will supply 33 watts of energy needed to drive the cycle from the cars battery.
Then you're getting the other 67 watts from the outside world." car already making heat"

In theory, the tesla model y heat pump saves about 67% in heating with "PERFECT" outside temperature conditions.

With the design of the tesla model y heat pump, it doesn't really lose any efficiency tell the magic
freezing point 32 degrees Fahrenheit.
Older tech heat pumps would start losing efficiency at around 40 degrees Fahrenheit.

the efficiency at perfect temp is 3 to 1. right at about 20 degrees Fahrenheit it turns into 2 to 1.
Once it gets below 0 then really 1 to 1.

If you want to put this in a heat pump for dummies term he told me it's simple lol.
4 people get into an object lets just use a car. temp is around 35 degrees. The heat your body is giving out will heat the inside of the object at a certain rate. Now with the heat pump at that temp, you can take away 3 of the people and 1 person body temp can give your the same temp inside the car. Now when it gets say 0 degrees your body can not heat itself and heat the inside of the car enough with temps this cold. So now it takes 4 people again to get to the temp, but with it being that cold the temp can not be kept and falls back to the 1 to 1 ratio.

The way a tesla heat pump is built with the octovalve. It is more like a fuel system for a jet or car automatic transmission. The added weight is not that much. Now with the model y heat pump when using the heat will make a choice to go into the condenser or go into the body of the car.

If it goes by the condenser you're heating the car if not gets broken down to use for aircon. The model y has the one radiator a big one. Some EV cars have 2 or 3. Waiting on a response of how many the Mache has and the size.

The idea of the heat pump heating the cabin is really not that much different than heat pumps in the past. What is different is the design of it itself. and the tesla heat pump design is about 8% more efficient than other heat pumps.

One of the guys I got this input from still works for tesla.

So there it is. If you like Tru's break down, please like comment and subscribe. Wait this is not youtube sorry.

 

[JCHLi]

So what type of refrigerant and how much relative to a non-heat pump, does this complex system use?

 

[timbop]

So u know I had to find some answers out about this heat pump. Made some called and emails.
here we go.

The car still will supply 33 watts of energy needed to drive the cycle from the cars battery.
Then you're getting the other 67 watts from the outside world." car already making heat"

In theory, the tesla model y heat pump saves about 67% in heating with "PERFECT" outside temperature conditions.

With the design of the tesla model y heat pump, it doesn't really lose any efficiency tell the magic
freezing point 32 degrees Fahrenheit.
Older tech heat pumps would start losing efficiency at around 40 degrees Fahrenheit.

the efficiency at perfect temp is 3 to 1. right at about 20 degrees Fahrenheit it turns into 2 to 1.
Once it gets below 0 then really 1 to 1.

If you want to put this in a heat pump for dummies term he told me it's simple lol.
4 people get into an object lets just use a car. temp is around 35 degrees. The heat your body is giving out will heat the inside of the object at a certain rate. Now with the heat pump at that temp, you can take away 3 of the people and 1 person body temp can give your the same temp inside the car. Now when it gets say 0 degrees your body can not heat itself and heat the inside of the car enough with temps this cold. So now it takes 4 people again to get to the temp, but with it being that cold the temp can not be kept and falls back to the 1 to 1 ratio.

The way a tesla heat pump is built with the octovalve. It is more like a fuel system for a jet or car automatic transmission. The added weight is not that much. Now with the model y heat pump when using the heat will make a choice to go into the condenser or go into the body of the car.

If it goes by the condenser you're heating the car if not gets broken down to use for aircon. The model y has the one radiator a big one. Some EV cars have 2 or 3. Waiting on a response of how many the Mache has and the size.

The idea of the heat pump heating the cabin is really not that much different than heat pumps in the past. What is different is the design of it itself. and the tesla heat pump design is about 8% more efficient than other heat pumps.

One of the guys I got this input from still works for tesla.

So there it is. If you like Tru's break down, please like comment and subscribe. Wait this is not youtube sorry.

PLEASE CAN THIS BE THE FINAL WORD OF THE "3 DAY YELLING AT EACH OTHER MARATHON"????

Regardless of what is said here, the 2021 non-GT Mach E's will NOT have a heat pump and the Y's will. Under many conditions the Y will drain the battery less than the Mach E to heat the cabin. No amount of bickering back and forth will change that.

 

[Jolteon]

The DESIGN of the Model Y's heat pump does not include a resistive heater, their PATENT did. They did not put the exact patented system into the car.

 

[Jolteon]

So what type of refrigerant and how much relative to a non-heat pump, does this complex system use?

Same R1234yf as all new cars, and probably a similar charge.

 

[trutolife27]

So really I talked to a few more people this morning. The cost is around 800 to 1,500 for this in the model y.

If your someone that lives in sunny Cali or the lower states that never really see below 45 degrees. Then it is not needed.

If your someone that lives with extreme winters where it is 20 degrees and below. It's not going to make much of a difference.

But the people who are in the middle of this could save about 8 miles of range per 100 miles. so just say 25 miles of range on a 300-mile battery.

The better option would be to sell it as an add-on.

The real truth about EV cars is in extremely cold conditions your range can be cut almost in half.

Now the mache suppose to have a better design for cold weather. We are all waiting to find out what percentage more that is.

 

[kdryden99]

So really I talked to a few more people this morning. The cost is around 800 to 1,500 for this in the model y.

If your someone that lives in sunny Cali or the lower states that never really see below 45 degrees. Then it is not needed.

If your someone that lives with extreme winters where it is 20 degrees and below. It's not going to make much of a difference.

But the people who are in the middle of this could save about 8 miles of range per 100 miles. so just say 25 miles of range on a 300-mile battery.

The better option would be to sell it as an add-on.

The real truth about EV cars is in extremely cold conditions your range can be cut almost in half.

Now the mache suppose to have a better design for cold weather. We are all waiting to find out what percentage more that is.

Thank you than that settles it for me. Its better to buy a small space heater and plug it into the 12 volt while driving ?

 

[JCHLi]

Thank you than that settles it for me. Its better to buy a small space heater and plug it into the 12 volt while driving ?

Per Tesla's model Y owner's manual, they recommend using the heated seats to save energy while driving...

 

[Jolteon]

I'm not sure what part isn't clear.

Of course the patent shows it.

The actual car doesn't have the exact system in the patent.

The actual car doesn't have the heater.

 

[1pt21Gigawatts]

So really I talked to a few more people this morning. The cost is around 800 to 1,500 for this in the model y.

If your someone that lives in sunny Cali or the lower states that never really see below 45 degrees. Then it is not needed.

If your someone that lives with extreme winters where it is 20 degrees and below. It's not going to make much of a difference.

But the people who are in the middle of this could save about 8 miles of range per 100 miles. so just say 25 miles of range on a 300-mile battery.

The better option would be to sell it as an add-on.

The real truth about EV cars is in extremely cold conditions your range can be cut almost in half.

Now the mache suppose to have a better design for cold weather. We are all waiting to find out what percentage more that is.

EPA really ought to have a cold/hot weather estimate on the sticker. But the heat pump efficiency extends into more operating ranges, not just 40-70F. It’s using less energy all the time to heat/cool between 40-80F. Which is a win a much higher percentage of the time.

 

[Jolteon]

Per Tesla's model Y owner's manual, they recommend using the heated seats to save energy while driving...

Of course. That's true in every EV. You can save energy beyond the heat pump's savings over a PTC if you don't use it... obviously.

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