Safety Recall 22S41 - 2021-2022 Mach E - HVBJB Recall [high voltage battery main contactors may overheat]

[Jim_I]

Not at all sure this is true, but from what I’ve read, those that had the HVBJB replaced reported that the dealer had to de-energize the HV battery prior to replacing the part. If that is a necessary prerequisite, it would appear that the battery has to be removed for this procedure to take place, so an easy access panel to the HVBJB may not help.

De-energizing the battery makes sense if you have to remove the battery pack from the vehicle for safety reasons. My point is that the HVBJB should not have been placed in a location where the battery pack needs to be pulled from the car for service to a part that could need regular maintenance. Like I said, fuses blow and contactors wear out. If the HVBJB NEEDS to be in the battery compartment, then it should have been designed with an access panel somewhere for servicing.

Found this on a Q&A section from a A/C company:

===================================================================
What can go wrong with an air conditioner contactor?

• They can burn out. Over time, contactors can burn out due to either normal wear and tear or overheating. When a contactor burns out, the component that it supplies electricity to will not be able to turn on.
• They can get stuck down. A contactor can get stuck while it’s down for a number of different reasons. When this happens, electricity will constantly flow through the contactor and certain parts of your air conditioner might continuously operate even if the rest of the system is shut down.
• They can get stuck up. Alternatively, a contactor can get stuck while it’s up. When this happens, the components connected to the contactor will be starved of electricity and will not turn on when they are supposed to.

===================================================================

I do realize that the contactors for our cars have a much higher rating than those used for an A/C unit. But the theory of operation is the same. These parts can wear out and should be able to be replaced with a minimum of effort. The A/C tech does not have to drain the gas and remove the condensing coil to change out a contactor. It is designed to be a maintenance part. Our cars should have had the same design for maintenance philosophy, IMHO.

What I am trying to say is that I am really not all that upset that a contactor has the possibility of failure in our cars. I am upset at the amount of work necessary to correct the problem because of a flaw in the original design of the location of the HVBJB.

Jim

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[Regularmache]

I have 2 cars on order. Long story. One was built the week of 5/16 and will be at the dealership probably next week. It is part of the recall. The other was scheduled the week of 5/23 and I saw no movement until this week when the modules came up and I got a build notice on 6/15. This car has shipped and is NOT listed on the NHTSA as part of the recall. I guess I won’t know for sure for about a month, but it looks clear.

As I read back, it seems Ford is saying notices will go out by mid July, but I haven’t seen anything official from Ford that the fix is coming mid July. I think I originally thought the notices going out meant the OTA, not a stupid letter saying I’m part of the recall.

Your dealer can pull the information, see my 5/11 GTPE "No Delivery or Demo Driving" letter attached. Your salesperson can pull this for you. It's clear July (3rd qrtr) is when they estimate the fix will be out for our effected cars. Oh and I'm a realist who expected first year glitches. Had them on all first year vehicles we bought. The most reliable vehicle is the one that hasn't had a major mechanical refresh and all these quirks are worked out by then. Don't get me started on our All new Lexus IS350 which last I checked was up to 67 recalls. Fun car though for sure.

 

[Secret Sauce]

That sucks The Bolt's pack design compounded the failures from LG in construction in terms of combustible nature and thermal runaway due to a single anode breach or short. Unfortunately, LG makes a hell of a lot more than just those packs but that is what it is. Same with whoever the A-holes are they either under-specced the MME contactor or made it with too high a variance.

I don't believe GM handled the battery issues well, at least not at the beginning and the stupid changing recommendations were a joke and I should remind you They even coined one of the software updates "a final solution" so they were on essence bumbling through something which is how it felt all along until the battery replacement plan came out. They righted that ship eventually and eventually I did also take a trade/swap for some money down (Mine took way longer than yours as my concierges and buyback coordinators kept getting fired/quitting/dying) and although I had intended to keep my new EUV, but then the $6k MSRP drop came and would wipe out much of what looked like a great deal. That MSRP drop was tone deaf right now on the heels of a massive recall still underway.

The new ones gone, I took the equity and what should have been my original trade in value if I hadn't been waiting on a new battery still and left GM. Time will tell if Kia and Ford end up being any better.

Yeah, it feels like groundhog day. The degree of GM's responsibility for LG's manufacturing defect is reflected in who paid what. LG absorbed 90% of the cost of the recall.

My problem with the way GM handled the recalls had more to do with the information they provided to customers who were caught in this bind, which was basically none. We were not told which cars would be prioritized or given even the slightest idea how long it might take for our cars to be repaired. My battery was actually replaced between the time I filed for the repurchase and when they made the repurchase offer. Had they told me this was even a possibility I probably would have held off on filing. By not helping me they didn't help themselves. Is Ford doing any better so far? Not in my book. The cluelessness of these big companies in dealing with customers never fails to amaze.

You aren't the first person I've heard complain about GM lowering the price of the Bolt. Always leaves me scratching my head.

 

[Secret Sauce]

Ford’s document sent to NHTSA states cars manufactured after 5/25 will have the software installed during manufacturing process. So no logical reason for them to not be released when they arrive at the dealer.

Also no logical reason for the cars being delivered to dealerships now to not have the software update installed on arrival so they can be released to customers as well. But this isn't happening, for reasons entirely unexplained.

 

[zahidcaglioz]

Your dealer can pull the information, see my 5/11 GTPE "No Delivery or Demo Driving" letter attached. Your salesperson can pull this for you. It's clear July (3rd qrtr) is when they estimate the fix will be out for our effected cars. Oh and I'm a realist who expected first year glitches. Had them on all first year vehicles we bought. The most reliable vehicle is the one that hasn't had a major mechanical refresh and all these quirks are worked out by then. Don't get me started on our All new Lexus IS350 which last I checked was up to 67 recalls. Fun car though for sure.

hey thanks for the info.

i was planning to buy a demo car(at 250km milage) from an officialford dealer. Is this car also part of stop selling message or can he sell it to me any idea? Thanks!

 

[rcechinel]

Also no logical reason for the cars being delivered to dealerships now to not have the software update installed on arrival so they can be released to customers as well. But this isn't happening, for reasons entirely unexplained.

The only explanation I can speculate is that post 5/25 cars don't have a software update yet, but have a biffier hvbjb.

 

[rcechinel]

hey thanks for the info.

i was planning to buy a demo car(at 250km milage) from an officialford dealer. Is this car also part of stop selling message or can he sell it to me any idea? Thanks!

Probably.

 

[JimmyMachE]

Now we are told that DCFC charging is not recommended with high speed driving.

It seems the MME does not cool down the HV battery after DC fast charging (unlike other cars with similar battery chemistry):

 

[Mach1E]

The only explanation I can speculate is that post 5/25 cars don't have a software update yet, but have a biffier hvbjb.

Why wouldn’t they just have the software update instead?

Ford has software figured out months before it’s available for OTA. Just look at 2021 job 2 cars with Bluecruise from the factory, then 7 months later job 1 cars got it OTA.

Due to the recall, this timeline is shortened significantly though.

 

[rcechinel]

Why wouldn’t they just have the software update instead?

I fully think they do. I was just answering the question of "why post 5/25 cara have the software and the dealers don't, halting deliveries?".

 

[BalsaDust]

De-energizing the battery makes sense if you have to remove the battery pack from the vehicle for safety reasons. My point is that the HVBJB should not have been placed in a location where the battery pack needs to be pulled from the car for service to a part that could need regular maintenance. Like I said, fuses blow and contactors wear out. If the HVBJB NEEDS to be in the battery compartment, then it should have been designed with an access panel somewhere for servicing.

Found this on a Q&A section from a A/C company:

===================================================================
What can go wrong with an air conditioner contactor?

• They can burn out. Over time, contactors can burn out due to either normal wear and tear or overheating. When a contactor burns out, the component that it supplies electricity to will not be able to turn on.
• They can get stuck down. A contactor can get stuck while it’s down for a number of different reasons. When this happens, electricity will constantly flow through the contactor and certain parts of your air conditioner might continuously operate even if the rest of the system is shut down.
• They can get stuck up. Alternatively, a contactor can get stuck while it’s up. When this happens, the components connected to the contactor will be starved of electricity and will not turn on when they are supposed to.

===================================================================

I do realize that the contactors for our cars have a much higher rating than those used for an A/C unit. But the theory of operation is the same. These parts can wear out and should be able to be replaced with a minimum of effort. The A/C tech does not have to drain the gas and remove the condensing coil to change out a contactor. It is designed to be a maintenance part. Our cars should have had the same design for maintenance philosophy, IMHO.

What I am trying to say is that I am really not all that upset that a contactor has the possibility of failure in our cars. I am upset at the amount of work necessary to correct the problem because of a flaw in the original design of the location of the HVBJB.

Jim

The analogy to the AC contactor does not apply in this sense. The AC units have a seperate voltage cut next to the ac compressor that needs to be removed (disconnected) before any servicing of the unit can happen. Additioanlly the proper procedure for removal is to drain and excess volyage from the start capacitor before any work can be done.
The HVBJB connects directly to the HVB and I would not want to see what happens when the connector touches ground!

 

[AKgrampy]

Also no logical reason for the cars being delivered to dealerships now to not have the software update installed on arrival so they can be released to customers as well. But this isn't happening, for reasons entirely unexplained.

My guess would be modules at the plant may be programmed prior to or right at installation by a tech who also tests the module. I think that may be a different process than what will have to take place with OTA updates so the OTA software is not yet available. Unfortunately that is just a guess and your thought that there is no logical reason to be not updating the cars on arrival may be accurate. However, at $60k a pop I do think Ford would want to get them sold sooner than later.

 

[FLmac]

Which dealer?

Mullinax Kissimmee

 

[chrisGT]

De-energizing the battery makes sense if you have to remove the battery pack from the vehicle for safety reasons. My point is that the HVBJB should not have been placed in a location where the battery pack needs to be pulled from the car for service to a part that could need regular maintenance. Like I said, fuses blow and contactors wear out. If the HVBJB NEEDS to be in the battery compartment, then it should have been designed with an access panel somewhere for servicing.

Found this on a Q&A section from a A/C company:

===================================================================
What can go wrong with an air conditioner contactor?

• They can burn out. Over time, contactors can burn out due to either normal wear and tear or overheating. When a contactor burns out, the component that it supplies electricity to will not be able to turn on.
• They can get stuck down. A contactor can get stuck while it’s down for a number of different reasons. When this happens, electricity will constantly flow through the contactor and certain parts of your air conditioner might continuously operate even if the rest of the system is shut down.
• They can get stuck up. Alternatively, a contactor can get stuck while it’s up. When this happens, the components connected to the contactor will be starved of electricity and will not turn on when they are supposed to.

===================================================================

I do realize that the contactors for our cars have a much higher rating than those used for an A/C unit. But the theory of operation is the same. These parts can wear out and should be able to be replaced with a minimum of effort. The A/C tech does not have to drain the gas and remove the condensing coil to change out a contactor. It is designed to be a maintenance part. Our cars should have had the same design for maintenance philosophy, IMHO.

What I am trying to say is that I am really not all that upset that a contactor has the possibility of failure in our cars. I am upset at the amount of work necessary to correct the problem because of a flaw in the original design of the location of the HVBJB.

Jim

Very well said!
In addition they did not think/design well the towing procedures for bricked cars.
Hopefully they learnt a lot from MME, and their next EVs will be easier to service.

 

[rcechinel]

The analogy to the AC contactor does not apply in this sense. The AC units have a seperate voltage cut next to the ac compressor that needs to be removed (disconnected) before any servicing of the unit can happen. Additioanlly the proper procedure for removal is to drain and excess volyage from the start capacitor before any work can be done.
The HVBJB connects directly to the HVB and I would not want to see what happens when the connector touches ground!

I think you missed his point. ?

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