😭😭😭 POST BATTERY CONTACTOR RECALL -- FIRST JUNCTION BOX FAILURE 😭😭😭😭

[JohnFoxeSheets]

@scoopman, damn, so sorry this happened to you yet again! While I of course understand why you didn't turn off the car, I'd really like to know what happens when the car is turned off. Given that the warning message is Service Soon, rather than Stop Safely Now, my guess is that the car will (should) not be bricked at that point, but in fact should still be functional, albeit presumably with the reduced power that what you experienced.

And I totally agree with you that it makes sense to get the recall s/w update performed so that you at least have the chance to continue to drive the car rather than immediately bricking it.

I'll likely get a lot of flames for this, but I actually think it makes sense for Ford to use this approach to address this issue. While obviously s/w can't truly fix the problem, it may spread out the failures enough to all Ford to replace failed HVBJBs at a rate dealers can handle, rather than having car lined out the door and down the street. Of course I would love to see more transparency from Ford as to exactly what the s/w changes do (for instance, could you have turned off the car at your hotel without bricking it?), as well as what their strategy is going forward. But regardless of the approach they decide to take, this is a public/customer relations disaster for them and I'm sure they're very aware of that!

Best of luck with all of this.

Oh, and Todd is absolutely right, as are your kids: The grill of the iX is far, far too ugly (and the lack of a frunk is bewildering).

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[DevSecOps]

Also no failure have been reported for sr rwd

When you only have one motor the power draw is far less. There's a reason we see this more in the GT's. They have two drive motors and have increased power consumption over the regular trims.

There's no guarantee that any trim is immune, but it's more likely to happen with more power drawn.

 

[Socalsp3]

I agree this software “fix” only gives you time to get to the dealer instead of being stranded in traffic or in the middle of an intersection. I might consider updating if it doesn't affect dcfc.

 

[Socalsp3]

Anyone have an idea as to what percentage of HVJB weld jobs are GT-PE’s, GTs, AWD ER, AWD SR etc?

There was a thread a month ago breaking down the trims something like 60% gt and 0% sr rwd and everything in between

 

[JohnFoxeSheets]

Yeah I agree "Service vehicle soon" doesn't seem so urgent. Guess we have to know "Service vehicle soon" = "Drive to dealer immediately without stopping". They would have to update the IPC software to make a more tailored message display.

Do we definitively know that the car wouldn't restart after the "Service vehicle soon" warning? I've not seen anything to indicate that is actually the case.

I know I'm getting pedantic but it's NOT TURTLE MODE. You don't see the turtle icon in his photo. Much more power than that, enough to drive on the highway with limited acceleration. Turtle mode is like 5 MPH FYI. "Service vehicle soon" = likely failed HVBJB.

Based on Andy's experience/writeup, I guess that "Service vehicle soon" = likely failing HVBJB. While obviously that's far from ideal, we don't know that it actually failed. In fact it might even be that the updated s/w is too twitchy and the contactors are actually ok. At this point, I don't think we know.

But if I've missed something, please by all means elucidate me!

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

I want to reiterate that I think this is totally completely unacceptable that Ford is not replacing this under-spec'd part on the GT/GTPE cars with a part that would withstand normal operation of these vehicles.

If they do this, they’ll need about 50,000 beyond those needed for new builds; just for NA alone. But GT-PE’s should be prioritized, followed by GTs and then all the rest of us.

I’m going to be interested in what the determination is on this round of failures for your car. A new HVJB should get more than 1700 miles. I’ve driven I-5 to SoCal many times (I’ve lived in Fremont, San Rafael, San Leandro, San Ramon and Tracy). It’s steady driving without many/any areas where WOT is called for. Or even serious acceleration. This trip should have been an easy test with relatively moderate driving.

 

[DevSecOps]

Given that the warning message is Service Soon, rather than Stop Safely Now, my guess is that the car will (should) not be bricked at that point, but in fact should still be functional...

Everyone wants to know if it will start, but I think everyone is missing the point...

Let me explain:

Stop Safely Now is when the car isn't able to be driven. This happens when the contactors are welded (and for other critical non-HVBJB related events). It cannot be started in this state.

Technically, when the contactors are welded is when the car is being driven, but at no point when the welding happens does the operator get an SSN message because the car is still operable in that state UNTIL you turn it off.

This new message could be during the prevention of welding however it could also be that in SOME instances people could experience the welding of the contactors. This would mean that in SOME instances a power down could result in SSN on power up.

We are all curious as to what state of failure Scoops car was in and we will find out tomorrow. Regardless of Scoops car starting or not, I don't think anyone should assume that your car will start up after this message if you receive it. I think the wise thing to do would be to keep the car on until you are able to determine the reason for the message or get to a safe place.

For GT cars the key to this is the jail bars and the message. That combination = HVBJB issues. For non GT people without a power bar, well that sucks because it could be something that's unrelated and you wouldn't know.

 

[buzznwood]

Sorry if I missed this from one of the other threads, but how do we know a software fix isn’t possible? Was something revealed (unofficially) with a more detailed explanation of how/why the failure is occurring aside from it apparently being a temperature issue?

If you can't even get up the grapevine without issue it makes the vehicle pretty useless if a few hills at freeway speeds heats things up to failure point Unless of course Ford thinks that the mach-e should limited to crawling along in truck lanes on hills.

All the software fix will be doing is monitoring components and doing a bit of logic to determine if it thinks a failure is imminent once a certain threshold is reached it will dial everything back to prevent overheating.

Seeing as the current software fix has already had a failure it doesn't really leave much in the way of options apart from adjusting what ever threshold it thinks is the danger zone to a new level. So future tweaks can pretty much can only go in one direction of more throttling for less welding.

People have no way on knowing in what condition there contactors are in so for some the software fix may work fine as they have not done much cumulative damage and the vehicle will soilder on for a number of years while others the service vehicle message is ready to pounce.

 

[redranger04g]

There was a thread a month ago breaking down the trims something like 60% gt and 0% sr rwd and everything in between

I was trying to look for that thread. I do remember GTPE, GT, ER AWD and SR AWD had failures occur and SR RWD did not have any failures. I don’t remember if there were any ER RWD. Do ER put out any extra power than the SR in RWD?

 

[JohnFoxeSheets]

Everyone wants to know if it will start, but I think everyone is missing the point...

Let me explain:

Stop Safely Now is when the car isn't able to be driven. This happens when the contactors are welded. It cannot be started in this state.

Technically when the contactors are welded is when the car is being driven, but at no point when the welding happens did you get a SSN message because the car is still operable in that state UNTIL you turn it off.

This new message could be during the prevention of welding however it could also be that in SOME instances people could experience the welding of the contactors. This would mean that in SOME instances a power down could result in SSN on power up.

We are all curious as to what state of failure Scoops car was in and we will find out, but I don't think anyone should assume that your car will start up after this message. I think the wise thing to do would be to keep the car on until you are able to determine the reason for the message or get to a safe place.

I understand and agree with all of this. We'll learn more soon.

 

[ripperAZ]

Very Disturbing account from a valued voice here. Having been there and done that with two ponies already and waiting for two more it is kind of a jolt to the sensibilities. But then none of you were stranded in Dateland AZ. Yeah that Dateland …... Literally in the shadow of the date shake billboard. Which I won’t drink. It wasn’t a three hour cruise it was a nine hour wait. My second one was nicer when it died it did it at a winery in Napa where I had a membership and they let me freaking stay the night in a Gorgeous suite all while giving me free wine because I was so freaking depressed.

At this point it seems extremely optimistic to assume that this is a software only fix ….

Jes Sayin…. I just went out and hugged my maverick hybrid. 60MPG. 700 mile range!!!!!!

 

[Mach-Lee]

Do we definitively know that the car wouldn't restart after the "Service vehicle soon" warning? I've not seen anything to indicate that is actually the case.

We do not, but that would be the prudent course of action in case it doesn't restart.

Based on Andy's experience/writeup, I guess that "Service vehicle soon" = likely failing HVBJB. While obviously that's far from ideal, we don't know that it actually failed. In fact it might even be that the updated s/w is too twitchy and the contactors are actually ok. At this point, I don't think we know.

True, we do not know the current state of his HVBJB. My guess would be somewhere between normal and completely fried. ? We don't know the false positive rate, but I'd like to think if the BECM detects something it probably warrants an immediate dealer trip. Either way he's getting a new one at this point with all the publicity.

 

[Socalsp3]

I was trying to look for that thread. I do remember GTPE, GT, ER AWD and SR AWD had failures occur and SR RWD did not have any failures. I don’t remember if there were any ER RWD. Do ER put out any extra power than the SR in RWD?

he has nice pie charts and everything

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/survey-high-voltage-battery-junction-box-issues.17433/

 

[JohnFoxeSheets]

We do not, but that would be the prudent course of action in case it doesn't restart.



True, we do not know the current state of his HVBJB. My guess would be somewhere between normal and completely fried. ? We don't know the false positive rate, but I'd like to think if the BECM detects something it probably warrants an immediate dealer trip. Either way he's getting a new one at this point with all the publicity.

Agree on both points. I'm just trying to separate what we know from what we speculate. (And yes, were I in Andy's shoes and if I have the presence of mind he did, I too wouldn't turn off the damn car until it was at the dealership!)

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